Guest Deeswift Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Dee - he put up the delayed flare which was his right? I'd never heard it before anyway and I've still not heard anyone do it like the audio sample on Asis. Telling someone how something is done isn't gonna mean they'll be doing it an hour later. I don't even know what the combo is we're discussing, but it's obviously not something that's easy or we'd all be posting audio of it and the conversation would be over. My teaching philosophy would be like this.....If I could do all sorts of mad scratches and combos but I was teaching a beginner how to scratch, I'd teach them from the ground up - same way as Dee said earlier. Learn the fundamentals because they are the basis for everything else. But, if they did say "Yeah, but how do you do that mad sounding scratch?" I'd show them. What would I have to lose really? Nobody can do a combo that's impossible to decipher. The more combos and scratches any person can do, the better their vocabulary is. I'd take pride in the fact that people were doing something I came up. If Flare hadn't shared the flare, then maybe we wouldn't all be doing it now and all our scratching would sound very different.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I dunno whether he did invent the delayed flare. I was talking about and describing something similar over at TTNN back in 2000 (and describing it both as a swing flare and a delayed-click flare), so as far as I am concerned I could have easily have come up with it. Who knows? All a delayed flare is though, is a variation of an already existing technique, which is basically built from a baby scratch and a flare done in different timings on both hands. The combo that jsong was talking about actually is easy -- but only if you can already do one of the techniques used in the combo fluently and fast. It will help if you scratch hamster too. I can't imagine anyone who scratches regular would be able to do it. Maybe half as fast, but the whole point of the combo is pure speed for the fuck of it. I set out to make the fastest combo I could. I tell you something though mate, I don't think it would have made much of a difference if DJ Flare hadn't told everyone about the flare scratch. I for one worked single-click flares out before I knew what they were, you can ask StepChild about that. This was before I owned any turntables, back when I was learning to cut on my ex-girl's midi hifi! StepChild came over to my house and I was cutting on this plastic heap of shit, and he said "that's a wicked flare you got there man", and I was like "what's a flare?". All I'd done is mis-time a transformer scratch but I stumbled upon single-click flares, then tried to work on getting it faster and more fluid because I thought it sounded good. So, maybe someone else just might have come up with the flare at some stage? I reckon so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I dunno. At the end of the day I'm all for information being available rather than people having to re-invent the wheel over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deeswift Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I'm all for not killing / watering down /spoon-feeding the art of scratching, progression, individuality, originailty and the willingness to put real effort into learning your craft and develop your own style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 That's fair enough, but when you give feedback you might say "do more tears and drags". To me that's leading people down a certain path based on what you think they should be doing, rather than leaving it to them. You could argue that there's no point posting files at all, because anyone commenting is gonna be doing so only by their own standards of what they believe to be good, so feedback itself is stifling originality. Bad feedback might make someone change their style to be more like someone else and perhaps that's not such a good thing. Those comments are not aimed at you in particular BTW. It could be anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deeswift Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 That's fair enough, but when you give feedback you might say "do more tears and drags". To me that's leading people down a certain path based on what you think they should be doing, rather than leaving it to them. You could argue that there's no point posting files at all, because anyone commenting is gonna be doing so only by their own standards of what they believe to be good, so feedback itself is stifling originality. Bad feedback might make someone change their style to be more like someone else and perhaps that's not such a good thing. Those comments are not aimed at you in particular BTW. It could be anyone.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> If I say "do more tears and drags" I'm merely suggesting learning the basics. I won't suggest doing particular combo's though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruxism Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 (edited) hmmm, heated. my comment before still stands though. The only two original techniques are babies and fader clicks. Where is it that you should draw the line when telling people about new styles? keep chirps a secret, let them figure them out? I say, the more tools we give people to work with, the better they are going to sound. The more they learn from us, the more they learn for themselves. The more they learn for themselves, the more they can teach us. and around and around we go, getting better and better. sir Isaac Newton said, "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." In other words, if all the other scientists before me hadn't worked out the world was round, and that the sun didn't revolve around the earth etc, how the hell could i have worked out what i did? Remember, this is a young instrument, we need to work to develop it. In years to come, people of the last and this generation will be seen as the pioneers and the inventors of this stuff. Edited July 27, 2005 by bruxism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocoB Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 @ steve i'm just stating my perspective, to each his own on this one. the ever has helped me out as well, i'll be honest about it. It helped me develop the basics, i never even tried copying all of aliositys cuts simply cause the ever is written as if it is the biggest collection of cuts ever. Its not, 10.000 deejays got 10.000 techniques that arent described in there. Thats what dee swift is saying. but to each his own, no problem. .peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaterNob Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I think there's one thing peeps need to understand here. If you ask somebody how to do something and they tell you then they're doing you a favour. Now, IMHO nobody should feel obliged to do somebody else a favour or be made to feel bad for not doing the favour. It's like that mang, it's like that doo doo doo dooooo! pz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chee Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 One thing about trying to learn something without being told how to do it is that you might actually come up with something else that sounds just as cool, but completely different. I guess it has something to do with having your mind open to all possibilities when you're trying to replicate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deeswift Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Exactly what I've been trying to get across, Chee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chee Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 BTW, I reckon I can do your combo just as fast, and I cut regular. "Challenge!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnstormer Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I don't mean to sound rude, honestly, but it seems that DJ's are spoon-fed these days, especially with stuff like Q-Bert's DIY, etc. Back when I was starting out there was no video's, or very few, and they never explained "advanced" techniques such as flares. Take a look at something like Turntable Wizardry Volume 1 (if you can find it) and you'll see Q and all those guys doing much more advanced techniques and scratches in their individual showcases than they were explaining in the tutorial sections. Nevertheless, this forced me to really try and work stuff out, and at the end of the day I'm glad it worked out like that. I was forced to get the basics solid, such as chirps, transformers, tears, stabs, etc -- the stuff that all combo's are built on. Now with the Internet becoming huge and easily accessible to most people, plus video's of top scratch DJ's sharing their knowledge, many people appear to have have lost the ability to build a solid foundation, and most importantly, their own style. Why are so many DJ's sounding the same these days? They all wanna sound like D-Styles, mainly. Even Q-Bert! Why? Probably because he has style! Seriously though, let's not turn scratching into fast food. If we avoid breaking down signature cuts, and keep trying to work things out by ourselves, we encourage creativity, and through this new things are born. It's fair enough being influenced by something, but try to express that influence in your own way. The crab was inspired by the twiddle, which was inspired by the 2-click flare orbit. The story behind that is Q-Bert was watching DJ Excel do the twiddle scratch, and from there he expanded on it and added two extra fingers, which then became the crab scratch. The reason why Excel came up with the twiddle is because he thought that's how the 2-click orbit was being done, so through trying in our own ways to break something down without being spoon-fed we come up with new techniques, and those unique techniques become part of your style, your signature sound. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Word to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deeswift Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 BTW, I reckon I can do your combo just as fast, and I cut regular. "Challenge!"<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Post a file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chile Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 learn the basics and you will see... like the greenthing.. he knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakule Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 this is the bottom line of music when u play your instruments, do u put on music of other people that u wanna play? do u mimic their parts? er. yeah?! watch the proms man, they on at the moment, a good example of people doing exactly that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chee Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 BTW, I reckon I can do your combo just as fast, and I cut regular. "Challenge!"<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Post a file.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, and I'll do it with my busted turntable too. Hand control bay-bee! What combo are we talking about? I've got your practice file, but it's in 2 parts (it's the .rm versions). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deeswift Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Really? Those files are ulra ancient. There's aother version of it somewhere, but I'm about to upload a ton of files to Rapidshare anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blak Randy Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Upload the practice again. I have some how lost mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deeswift Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Jan. 2001 Practice Rapid Share kicks butt. Nice and fast to upload to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chile Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 is this that lil recording from the drug enduced practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deeswift Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Yeah, it's fucking nuts. There are a few OK bits in it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chile Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 dope, will check this then, havnt heard it in a while.. mad stuff from what i remember.. fast as fook uzi transforms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deeswift Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Did I do uzi transforms in that file? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chile Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 listening to it again id say you didnt .. lol, must have heard it from another of yer files :s .. hehe i have a good idea what that cut is startin 6.43, i can do them but only with like 2 click orbits tight... your crazy dee lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chee Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 BTW, I reckon I can do your combo just as fast, and I cut regular. "Challenge!"<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Post a file.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> OK, here's a work-in progress. It's the first thing that came to my mind when I heard the bit you;re talking about. THis is with a busted no-motor turntable btw. I'm probably completely off the mark. yousendit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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