Deeswift what's that cut u did on?

[cbay]

im sure whatever the technique is its a combination of simple shit thats dee's just flipped hard.

 

i dont find dee's comment the slightest bit threatening or wanky at all, i believe dee is just encouraging us to push ourselves, to think outside the box.. and i respect that he does it without telling everyone that theyre not next level enough

 

and i agree with chile's comment to listen and try and figure it out.. maybe a small hint may help.

 

I was forced to get the basics solid, such as chirps, transformers, tears, stabs, etc -- the stuff that all combo's are built on. Now with the Internet becoming huge and easily accessible to most people, plus video's of top scratch DJ's sharing their knowledge, many people appear to have have lost the ability to build a solid foundation, and most importantly, their own style.

 

i dont know about anyone else, but for someone thats been scratching a bit over 2 years, thats kind of a reality check for me, and i guess, for my 'generation' also. it made me stop and think why i scratch in the first place. to have somone else's 'voice' or to have my own? it does seem that anyone who starts cutting expects to be crabbing and uzi-ing before they can flare. i admit thats how i started off. people need to realise that they need a solid foundation before expecting to be the next big thing in scratching. dont mean to sound like a hypocritical wanker for sayin that since ive only been scratching 2 years, but thats why im here on dv coz i can say (a reasonable amount of) shit without people calling me names

 

now how do you do those alien guns again dee?

[Steve]

Style and individual techniques are two different things. If they're not, it's like saying that if we all learned to play the same chords on a guitar we'd end up playing the same tunes. QBert learned a lot of his techniques from other people, but it's what you do with them that matters.

 

I think the problem is not individual techniques, it's people looking at certain DJs they consider to be the best and basing their own style on theirs. There are very few DJs now that I can listen to and say "Yeah, that's so and so scratching" unless I already know who it is. Now that there are so many people reaching similar levels, the only thing that's gonna set one person apart from the other is a bit of individuality.

[bruxism]

hmmm, every technique is just a variation of the basics, where do you cut it off and say, "i won't teach you anything else, you know the basics now"? I mean, if you tell someone what a baby scratch is, and you teach them what the fader does, is that enough? That's the basic "foundations" when it comes down to it.

 

But when people talk about solid foundations, they talk about tears, transforms, chirps and stabs?

 

but is that enough? What about a definition of solid foundations that includes flares? or crabs?

 

and in five years time, will the definition of "the basics" also include prisms? or delayed apestyle crabMcTwists?

 

Again, much respect to everyone who wants to keep their secret variations and styles and combos a secret, it's your choice.

 

To anyone who wants to share all, tell all, that's where it's at.

 

peace out

[Blak Randy]

delayed apestyle crabMcTwists?

 

I can only do these with the fader in hamster mode.

[HaterNob]

If you're ready to learn a particular scratch technique then you should be able to work it out IMHO, if not then you're not ready to learn it. Or something like that......

[bruxism]

how very zen

[drakule]

If you're ready to learn a particular scratch technique then you should be able to work it out IMHO, if not then you're not ready to learn it. Or something like that......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

nah disagree, i've learnt instruments all my life and you might be ready to learn something, but it doesnt necessarily mean you can teach yourself it....i wouldnt have gotten anywhere if those better than me weren't prepared to impart their greater knowledge upon me...

[Guest Deeswift]

hmmm, the thing that brought me to digital vertigo was the fact that i thought i'd found a pretty amazing community where people didn't mind sharing the wealth of knowledge.

 

Dee, not feeling the whole, "i learnt everthing the hard way, now it's your turn" attitude.

 

Much respect, you did it your way, without the videos and the internet, but times have changed.  My dad always tells me he walked bare foot in the snow for 5 miles to get to school every day, but he's never once wished it on me.  U dig?

 

Sure, we're all learning the same techniques, but it's how you flip it that matters.  Anyone who plays the guitar plays it the same way, with the same set of techniques, but there will only ever be one jimi hendrix.

 

so, in my humble opinion, i say we all share everything we ever learn, every new type of technique we think of, because if we do that, then this whole turntable thing is only going to go forward.  we aren't going to all sound the same, because, everyone's zigzag, flare etc, has a different sound, and it's putting it in the right context that's the skill.

 

Peace out all, Love the site everyone, keep sharing!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I totally disagree. You see, you're looking at learning "the hard way" as a bad thing, but learning things for yourself is actually a whole lot of fun and part of the whole process. You would be more proud of something you worked out yourself than if someone else told you how to do it. Again, let's not turn scratching into fast food. I hope you can see my side of it. Learning this way cannot be compared to walking barefoot through the snow for 5 miles, that's where you instantly let yourself down -- a negative view of the learning process and not being prepared to learn properly. You wantr instant gratification and the shit people give away to you becomes worthless. I will not break my cuts down, sorry. I spent years learning what I do and crafting my own style, and for people to expect others to give away techniques they came up with themselves is wrong. I didn't hear anyone do the scratch that jsong was asking about anyway, and if I did hear it, I'd know that someone took it from me. Blatantly, it's my combo. But people wanna know how it's done so they can throw it into their bag of tricks, then it becomes worthless.

The perfect example is delayed flares. Everyone is aiming for the same STALE shit... "ah, let's all do delayed flares now! if Ricc can sound ill doing this, then I want that too!". Wack. Get your own style. I'm all for sharing the basics, these are the bricks that you'll be building your house with, but don't expect me to help design your house.

[JHouse]

I totally agree. Everybody already sounds the same, why share a technique so people can bite it and thus sound like the originator?

 

Take graphic design for example, I check out tutorials on Photoshop all the time. Thing is, all the tutorials I've seen have been used to the fullest. Meaning, everybody's doing the same shit...Minimal sites really stand out now 'cause they're all using the same techniques.

 

If you think about it, some of the dopest skratchers out there learned on their own, and thus created their own styles. My boy Astro learned not from the net, but by listening to other djs. Same goes for Dee, from what I gather.

 

I'm totally game for washing off labels 'cause people will bite. Hard. I see it all the time, regardless of the endeavor. A lot of people are lazy and don't want to put the work forward to do something really different and creative, thus they all sound alike. Why should you do all the work and then somebody just come and swoop up on it? Work at it, dig, learn, it's way more gratifying.

 

BTW, no dissing here, just spillin' the truth.

 

Peace to all.

[cocoB]

word to dee, i feel you man

u work hard to get your style, then boom someone copies it

there's no pride man... no style, especially now when everyone is doing the same cuts, same beats, same clothes, same caps, same everything.

[Steve]

Teaching someone a technique does not make them a clone - it's how they use it that may or may not make them one.

 

As for Photoshop tutorials, which is more use - an in depth one, or one that barely scratches the surface? If you read the more in-depth one you can still make a minimal site, but if you read the shit tutorial you won't be able to make a more complex site.

[HaterNob]

If you're ready to learn a particular scratch technique then you should be able to work it out IMHO, if not then you're not ready to learn it. Or something like that......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

nah disagree, i've learnt instruments all my life and you might be ready to learn something, but it doesnt necessarily mean you can teach yourself it....i wouldnt have gotten anywhere if those better than me weren't prepared to impart their greater knowledge upon me...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you've taken my comment out of context. The scratch the guy was asking Dee about is no doubt a combination of the aspects of 2 or perhaps more techniques eg. a crab over a tear. Now if you can't tear and you can't crab then you're not ready to learn a crab over a tear. If you can crab and you can tear is it really neccesarry for somebody to tell you how to put them together?

 

It's not like the guy was aksing how to do a chirp or a flare....

 

Now, back to thread:

 

Who the fucking hell is anybody to be asking somebody how to perform a technique like it's their right to know?! Somebody answer me that...

 

pz

[Steve]

But why is it a secret? Apply this logic to learning anything else and we'd all be thick as fuck.

[cocoB]

this is the bottom line of music

 

when u play your instruments, do u put on music of other people that u wanna play? do u mimic their parts?

 

whats the use of copying others shit when maybe deep down u got some lovely stuff yourself. it wont come out like that. its like a really really really great cover band. Ever seen one of those? I've seen a couple of great cover bands, possibly even better then the original BUT when it comes to own songs its not there most of the time

why do u make music? to be the cool guy with the mixwell tshirt and the cap and be seen on a stage or to be creating something that's your own. we get influenced enough already, studying is in various ways. the simple version is a school, the most honest version is by yourself.

[Guest Deeswift]

Teaching someone a technique does not make them a clone - it's how they use it that may or may not make them one.

 

As for Photoshop tutorials, which is more use - an in depth one, or one that barely scratches the surface? If you read the more in-depth one you can still make a minimal site, but if you read the shit tutorial you won't be able to make a more complex site.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Steve, it is not a technique, it's a combo. There's a difference, and I never heard anyone else do that combo.

 

EDIT: Haternob, CocoB, cgroove, and JHouse are on point.

[cbay]

awesome debate. alien guns for all!

 

nah for real though, i understand that instant gratification mindset that dee is talking about, coz ive experienced it.. expecting to have everything thrown at me so i can become better.

 

now im just taking my time and learning by myself, and discovering shit on my own, on my own grounds.. it really does seem more worthwhile developing myself this way.

 

ps. i call them alien guns. yes thats right. fuckin alien guns. those little watery bursts that dee does on DEESWIFT.RANDOM.SCRATCH.CLIP.APRIL.2005.mp3 at 0:28-0:32, alternating with chirps (i think?)

[HaterNob]

When I win the Lottery I'm gonna pay Q-Bert to stand behind me, strap his arms to mine and scratch for 7 years solid. Then I'll be the best scratcher in the world! Woo!

 

pz

[Steve]

cocoB - Who would you say is making the most moves in the scratch world now? Ricci Rucker maybe? This is the same guy that put up The Ever which has the most comprehensive breakdown of scratches on the 'net. Besides which, techniques and combos are not gonna guarantee you make great music out of scratching, but the worst scratcher in the world may have some great ideas, but lacks the skill to put them into practice. I'd rather someone better than me taught me new things, the same way I would willingly teach someone that's not as good as me. The philosophy here seems to be teach a little in the hope that a lot is learned, when you could just teach a lot in the first place.

[Guest Deeswift]

When I win the Lottery I'm gonna pay Q-Bert to stand behind me, strap his arms to mine and scratch for 7 years solid. Then I'll be the best scratcher in the world! Woo!

 

pz

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

LOL! Well, I taught several people to do certain things by grabbing their hands and doing a technique. I taught my brother's girlfriend how to chirp in about 2 minutes, and a bassplayer friend how to flare in about 30 seconds, and my mum how to do a forwards scratch on "fresh", which was hilarious. Strapping your arms to someone elses is an effective way of teaching them how to do stuff, but then what? Obviously if they were really intrested in learning to scratch they'd have to teach themselves and learn to understand what they were doing, they have no foundation.

 

Re: Steve's post above: The thing is though mate, Ricc put up a page full of techniques rather than his personal combo's. I agree with sharing techniques, we all need to learn them, but not combo's that I come up with myself. Those combo's are what build our styles. Two existing techniques used in a combo doesn't become a new technique.

[cbay]

i think the new issue here is that people have different teaching/learning philosophies. thats not a problem of course, unless it leads to hanging, stoning to death, slicing in half with a sword, or being thrown off the highest available place.

[Guest Deeswift]

ps. i call them alien guns. yes thats right. fuckin alien guns. those little watery bursts that dee does on DEESWIFT.RANDOM.SCRATCH.CLIP.APRIL.2005.mp3 at 0:28-0:32, alternating with chirps (i think?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, there's chirps in there mate.

[Steve]

Dee - he put up the delayed flare which was his right? I'd never heard it before anyway and I've still not heard anyone do it like the audio sample on Asis. Telling someone how something is done isn't gonna mean they'll be doing it an hour later. I don't even know what the combo is we're discussing, but it's obviously not something that's easy or we'd all be posting audio of it and the conversation would be over.

 

My teaching philosophy would be like this.....If I could do all sorts of mad scratches and combos but I was teaching a beginner how to scratch, I'd teach them from the ground up - same way as Dee said earlier. Learn the fundamentals because they are the basis for everything else. But, if they did say "Yeah, but how do you do that mad sounding scratch?" I'd show them. What would I have to lose really? Nobody can do a combo that's impossible to decipher. The more combos and scratches any person can do, the better their vocabulary is. I'd take pride in the fact that people were doing something I came up. If Flare hadn't shared the flare, then maybe we wouldn't all be doing it now and all our scratching would sound very different.

[cbay]

ps. i call them alien guns. yes thats right. fuckin alien guns. those little watery bursts that dee does on DEESWIFT.RANDOM.SCRATCH.CLIP.APRIL.2005.mp3 at 0:28-0:32, alternating with chirps (i think?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, there's chirps in there mate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IM LEARNDING!

 

[Blak Randy]

why do u make music? to be the cool guy with the mixwell tshirt and the cap and be seen on a stage.

 

Dood. I only met you for like 5 seconds about 2 years ago. I never thought you'd remember me. Props.

[Steve]

LOL!