reverse patterns...

[Steve]

10 pages? What do you think this is, a Rucker thread about people eating sunlight through their eyes? This is gonna be 100 pages at least!

[Blak Randy]

Where's a fuijatata.

 

On another note a DJ came round my pad the other day and had the best reverse chirps and transforming I have seen. He is one of the most vesitile scratchers I have seen. Made me wanna just transform.

[x2k]

Where's a fuijatata.

 

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Ahh, the mystical FlangeEater, there's something I've not seen mentioned for a few weeks, maybe we should start a seperate thread about them.

[Guest Deeswift]

Can any one post some notation of delayed flares the way Frank Zappa does them, also anyone got any of his old cut files?

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I could post Frank's delayed flares in notation, but it'd be impossible for human hands to perform.

[dextrous]

I totally agree with Steve on this one.

 

 

Oh yeah, delete this thread.

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delete this tosser

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Fucking LOL. Chile you're the one that says shit like

 

its a delayed 2 clicker with an inversed click relationship

 

... and I'M a tosser???

[Dub-Se7en]

you're both tossers

[Blak Randy]

Post a score card from a caber tossing contest bitch.

[Dub-Se7en]

i was just about to fill it in

 

[chile]

I totally agree with Steve on this one.

 

 

Oh yeah, delete this thread.

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delete this tosser

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Fucking LOL. Chile you're the one that says shit like

 

its a delayed 2 clicker with an inversed click relationship

... and I'M a tosser???

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lol naw, that just means you don't understand. And im calling you a tosser because you don't input anything at all to this thread but hate.

[chile]

While i was learning chirps I just couldnt seem to get the speed on them what so ever because i was following the notation. It was later that i realised the notation was misleading me...

You're telling Carluccio that his transcription is misleading when you guys are drawing the same pictures but putting different names underneath them.

 

 

So the delayed 2-click flare is really just chirps and reverse chirps where you click at the start instead of the end?

 

Pointing out discrepancies, differences in naming of scratches and shit like that should be a good thing, not a negative one, but obviously you don't see it that way. You'll have a hard job trying to get people to accept notation if everyone's is different.

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carlucios transcription is wrong, i can bet you, but hes never online to reply. His version of a chirp has 2 clicks on em.. it doesnt take a genius to figure hes wrong with that one. Man, the first discrepancy you posted to my notation was on that boomerang thing.. you tryed to correct a mistake that wasnt there by posting the exact same diagram. Earlier you tryed correcting me on the fact that a chirp doesnt have a click after the forward sound.. WTF ?

 

I see what your getting at with the differences in notation.. thats why i wrote some shit before about my system of notation.

[chile]

The first part of this file shows the chirp that is notated on the TTM, the second part shows the actual chirp which most djs use and recognise as the chirp.

 

http://s6.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3C9OKHP2ZL0YE3V3ZIKBY5TP1Y

[2ndhand]

there's only ONE chirp mofo's

 

check out "the magnificent jazzy jeff"

[Steve]

Your transcription is wrong Chile. Where does his version of a chirp have 2 clicks in it? There are no dots showing fader movement. His version shows a gap at the beginning and a section cut out as the record changes direction. As you think there is no gap at the beginning.......

 

I recorded some chirps and then zoomed in on the sound wave: -

 

 

The bit highlighted in white is the gap that exists in between each chirp - exactly the same as the gap in his transcription. The next gap along is where the sound is cut out due to the fader being closed. Here is the audio that matches the screenshot. Is this not a chirp?

 

chirp.mp3

 

You can argue these points all you like, but the proof is right there.

[chile]

your talking about the ghost click caused by reversing the sample to before its played, giving it the sharp sound. To label the ghost click a black dot is misleading as the dots are meant to represent closing the fader at that point. You have a point that there is a space after the chirp and my notation doesnt have a space at all. Its just showing the chirp performed more inside the sample. I'll fix that, cheers.

[Steve]

OK. Just understand that I'm not trying to get at you on purpose! lol. I used to think notation was bullshit, but now I'm quite interested in it and can see it's uses.

[twitch]

Another reason why i think chirp notation is tricky to nototate over other more tech multi click scratchs, is because the relationship between the fader and record is even. All other sractchs have odd relationships - so yes - my drawing is wrong - but from a standardized view of all scratchs - its perfectly right and understandable. But - yes - my drawing of the chirp may be mis-leading to some one trying to learn it - but this is not who were aiming notation at - it's people that all ready have that basic knowlege of chirps and want to understand complex stuff... Its also trying to minimalize drawing the many different ways a fader can be moved.. Obviously transforms have differnt fader properties to a flare - but i still represent the closed part as a red line/ dot /hexaganoid/ whatever.. Its just the point at which the fader is definately closed.. I am just trying to simplify...

 

Yes im from Sydney...

[chile]

OK. Just understand that I'm not trying to get at you on purpose! lol. I used to think notation was bullshit, but now I'm quite interested in it and can see it's uses.

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fair, s'all good, keeps me on my toes so to speak

[Steve]

 

That's the same chirp, but done on the middle of the ahhhhhh, so there's no ghost click caused by using the very beginning of the sound. Notice there's still a gap in between each chirp even though it's small.

[chile]

thats the phantom click effect. Its caused by the record changing direction and stopping for the split second change in direction.

[Steve]

Another reason why i think chirp notation is tricky to nototate over other more tech multi click scratchs, is because the relationship between the fader and record is even.  All other sractchs have odd relationships - so yes - my drawing is wrong - but from a standardized view of all scratchs - its perfectly right and understandable.  But - yes - my drawing of the chirp may be mis-leading to some one trying to learn it - but this is not who were aiming notation at - it's people that all ready have that basic knowlege of chirps and want to understand complex stuff...  Its also trying to minimalize drawing the many different ways a fader can be moved.. Obviously transforms have differnt fader properties to a flare - but i still represent the closed part as a red line/ dot /hexaganoid/ whatever.. Its just the point at which the fader is definately closed..  I am just trying to simplify...

 

Yes im from Sydney...

I get what you're saying Twitch and yeah, it's not that easy to notate a chirp unless you make it more complicated. Thing is, if all you're doing is creating symbols that represent chirps for people who already know what one is and how to do it, then you may as well just use the letter C or any other symbol on a stave of some kind.

 

For notating single scratches and basic combos like chirp flares as a method of learning them, I would perhaps use two types of dot, say a hollow one and a shaded in one, each representing either opening or closing the fader. It makes the diagram more complicated, but it takes away any doubt on how that technique is performed. It would make a chirp extremely simple to draw at least.

[chile]

This is a tip in notation I did a while back.. I didn't know how to notate the area before a sound starts on paper as its not included in version of the transcription so I made one up which is pretty easy to understand. The blue areas indicate record movement in the area before the sample begins.. apply that to the chirp and its a more accurate representation of a chirp..

 

[chile]

Another reason why i think chirp notation is tricky to nototate over other more tech multi click scratchs, is because the relationship between the fader and record is even.  All other sractchs have odd relationships - so yes - my drawing is wrong - but from a standardized view of all scratchs - its perfectly right and understandable.  But - yes - my drawing of the chirp may be mis-leading to some one trying to learn it - but this is not who were aiming notation at - it's people that all ready have that basic knowlege of chirps and want to understand complex stuff...  Its also trying to minimalize drawing the many different ways a fader can be moved.. Obviously transforms have differnt fader properties to a flare - but i still represent the closed part as a red line/ dot /hexaganoid/ whatever.. Its just the point at which the fader is definately closed..  I am just trying to simplify...

 

Yes im from Sydney...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I get what you're saying Twitch and yeah, it's not that easy to notate a chirp unless you make it more complicated. Thing is, if all you're doing is creating symbols that represent chirps for people who already know what one is and how to do it, then you may as well just use the letter C or any other symbol on a stave of some kind.

 

For notating single scratches and basic combos like chirp flares as a method of learning them, I would perhaps use two types of dot, say a hollow one and a shaded in one, each representing either opening or closing the fader. It makes the diagram more complicated, but it takes away any doubt on how that technique is performed. It would make a chirp extremely simple to draw at least.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I personally think that the open fader symbol is redundant. It has no use as you can assume that the fader is open when ever there are no black dots at the begining of the scratch.

[Steve]

Yeah, but it needs to accurately represent the sound IMO. If you look at the waveform I posted, the gaps in between each sound in the chirp are about 3 times longer than the sounds themselves, which you wouldn't figure out from your notation.

 

If I were to draw a chirp, I would go with the two dot method I mentioned above and the dots would be around half way up and half way down each part of the wave - close the fader here and open it here, rather than a single dot which implies a very brief click off and on. See also, if you do a really slow chirp, you've still only got the same dot as if you're doing a really fast one, which implies you do the exact same thing with the fader for both - the same fast off/on click, but in reality you'd need to close and open the fader slower as your record hand slows.

[Steve]

BTW - You could argue that any dot is redundant - all you really need is the line to show where the fader is open as in Carluccio's chirp notation. As you proved yourself though, that can confuse people.

[Guest Ryan]

./\.