d00ban Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think a lot of the time people do it for guidance. If you ain't showing people where you're at, how do you know it's not straight wack? I've been cutting for ages and only recently been able to cut with other people to see where I'm at in relation to everyone else. I guess that's why I've not bothered doing a file for a while as I've not needed to. I've been working on flow a lot recently so it's nice to have people comment on my flow being good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 well yeh, thats part of the risk involved, if you spend so long on your own and dont pay alot of attention to others then you might come out the other end and be too different. i dont think wack is the right word, but i know what you mean. as in if you do something for a long time and put the hours in, i dont think you can end up being shit at it. like i've been djing for what like 8 years now, most of that i've cut on my own. and most of the time when i was developing early, i was in a village with no internet. to keep myself in check i just visited people, like i came to london to see Black Randy, I went to 2tall's house, Daredevil more recently. and it was more like checking in. im not saying a file i do will be shit hot or anything, but from sss people have said how i have a different style. and thats why i partly started SSS, as i dont like recording files, its good to link with people. tooo much of this scene is online. and as much as i like cutting on my own and doing my own thing out of the way, i think its important for djs to check in with each other, but in real life, not on youtube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Course it can be wack, even after 8 years. Think of all the jumped up rappers you hear who think they're incredible and you're just thinking "wtf??" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 yeh but are you thinking 'wtf' cos of the bullshit they're saying or 'wtf' regarding the tech aspects like flow, or breathing technique. i mean if you've been practicing shit wrong for years then yeh, you'll sound shit, but i never said my way of doing it wasnt retard proof. I just know it worked out for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Well you are good at the wank sock.... Let's leave it at that shall we Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 always ends up back to that, its just a safet cut, like the chirp flare is yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 "you have a different style" sounds like people saying you're shit as diplomatically as they can to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekked Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think you're missing the point of the ahh file a bit Kimbly. As d00ban said, most ppl post using ahh because they're trying to show/get feedback on technique, patterns, phrasing. People are using ahh to make their technique (the good things and the flaws both) more obvious. The goal isn't to make something that "sounds good" independent of technique, so if you're listening to it that way you're listening to it for reasons other than intended. Saying that you don't think much more can be done with ahh/fresh, or that only rarely do people scratch ahh/fresh any differently maybe says more about how you're listening to it, or your understanding of what they're doing, than how they're scratching.I think that rather than saying people should use different samples, and not use ahh/fresh anymore, in freestyles when they're looking for feedback on technique is kind of misguided. I think a better point (that seems to be what you're getting at in some posts) is that not EVERY scratch recording needs to be looking for technique feedback, because yea 90%+ of the scratch recordings posted on the internet are posted with that intention. I think it shows an obsession with technique/raw ability rather than an obsession with the ahh sample. I think the argument should be that it'd be nice to hear more people putting their skills towards something more than just being good for the sake of it (like songs, mixes, routines, etc).Slightly ranting now but I often feel that way with battle DJs who just stop scratching/juggling/anything when they're done battling. Like the dozens of world class turntablists who have won nationals/world titles or whatever and then stop battling but also stop scratching. Like they spend most of a decade becoming one of the best in the world at something, then don't actually do anything with it. It's like being a competitive filmmaker, and making these amazing competition movies and then just stop when you're done competing like "I just wanted to win some competitions, not actually make any movies"... seems like a waste. EDIT: changed analogy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I know where Jimmy is coming from. I used to be able to recognise my favourite scratchers just by their style. I'd know if it was Jazzy Jeff, Cash Money, Aladdin or whoever cutting on a track just by hearing it. Now you have a lot of very skilled scratchers who all sound the same and that's a big part of what makes it boring to me. Plus everyone's cutting up ahhhhhh/fresh over the same type of beats. It's like everyone's saying "here's my practice file", but what are you practicing for? You never post anything BUT practice files! People mostly do it for enjoyment, so I'm not trying to have a go, but I'm being selfish in that I'd much rather people actually took their scratching and did something with it - an album, a scratch track, doing some cuts on a rap track, a mixtape with scratching in it - whatever. I swear 80% of the people on DV buy nothing but battle records and only ever listen to loopers, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 "you have a different style" sounds like people saying you're shit as diplomatically as they can to me Just when I thought someone sensible had stepped in before this playground scuffle escalated into hair pulling and the laddering of tights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacken Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 its slightly different, but why do people copy Q so much? even if someone gets that good, if they straight up copied him, all you'll ever get told is that 'you sound like Q'it seems like there's very few people willing to put the effort into being more creative themselves. everyone wants a short cut or shown how to do it, but what the problem with ahhhhs? ahhh its like benchmark, it's perfect sound for all techniques. the problem is that the most scratch dj's like to use same patterns, same transitions, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 "you have a different style" sounds like people saying you're shit as diplomatically as they can to me Just when I thought someone sensible had stepped in before this playground scuffle escalated into hair pulling and the laddering of tights... I can never resist goading James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 edited. see below #nooban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm screen grabbing this for evidence in my cyber bullying case. edit: furthermore, its nice to see Steve knows what im on about. But i also see Vekked's point of view. When you say it like that, it makes a lot of sense. but as steve mentioned, this hit it on the head.. It's like everyone's saying "here's my practice file", but what are you practicing for? You never post anything BUT practice files! People mostly do it for enjoyment, so I'm not trying to have a go, but I'm being selfish in that I'd much rather people actually took their scratching and did something with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I actually love the sound of aaahs. I use them in practice files and routines a lot because, like people have already said, the sound is so recognised that people can instantly tell what you're doing. In fact I prefer aah battle routines to routines using loads of produced sounds where djs hide their lack of dexterity under their use of samples. Choosing to scratch different sounds but with old patterns doesn't make you different, it's arguably just hiding a lack of dexterity. I'd rather see someone cut with an aah over an original beat choice and kill it with new patterns. I love the sound of aahs when playing out too, there's just something crisp and punchy about the sound. Scratch music is different though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Slightly ranting now but I often feel that way with battle DJs who just stop scratching/juggling/anything when they're done battling. Like the dozens of world class turntablists who have won nationals/world titles or whatever and then stop battling but also stop scratching. Like they spend most of a decade becoming one of the best in the world at something, then don't actually do anything with it. It's like being a competitive filmmaker, and making these amazing competition movies and then just stop when you're done competing like "I just wanted to win some competitions, not actually make any movies"... seems like a waste. COSIGN. Although I'm nowhere near his level I'd aspire to be someone like Craze who primarily DJs, but also keeps up on scratching and still kills it with videos (I'd throw production in the mix too). I don't get the mentality of working on something for so long then quitting or just playing top 40 stuff out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 i just want to hear/see something that sounds good, or different You're saying Production> Patterns? It's a perfectly ok to have that mentality, just produce hard or dig hard to find your samples and write tunes. Usually routines that sound good are down to great sample choice and would still sound good with basic cuts. , and i dont think theres a whole lot more that can be done with aahhh/ freshhh It's never ending, just push yourself. The ahh is the perfect example of a sound that can flipped in every which way, more than any other sound (besides maybe a melody). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darcyd Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm surprised that no one has brought up how easy it is to scratch with the ahhhh and fresh sample. They are deadly forgiving. When the illest of scratch nerds use the ahh and fresh in ways that do not require to be forgiven. That shit gets ill as all hell. I agree, they are "benchmark" sounds and very good for learning patterns. I am still in the land of "practice mode" and think more people should be until they actually have that shit down cold. Then start experimenting and making scratch music. I agree, most people are just posting practice files and pawning that shit off for "scratch music". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 the GOD set with slayer style heavy as fuck beats, or lewis james doing the soundscape thing, but with a few cuts. then with oslo flow. Jimmy Penguin and Deviant have been doing their own thing for years, and it doesnt involve a lot of ahhh, its all musical. All these guys use a lot of ahhs when I've seen them, G.O.D. in particular use a lot of aah and ahh-type sounds in addition to vocals etc. I get what you're saying though. There is a stereotype of djs cutting rehearsed ahh patterns over boring beats. As I've said a few times on here, if you want see something change, the most obvious thing to do is change it yourself. I love the DMC format but after 06 or so I rarely liked any of the DMC sets in the competitions (in 2012 I can count the amount of routines I really really liked on one hand), so I decided to start entering to try and push where I wanted DMC to go. The vast majority of people on here are better at cutting/juggling than me but I knew I wanted to see change in the competition so I went for it. I'm still very much behind most people on a technical level but I've noticed a lot of positive criticism in regards to my sets as a result of my efforts. Precision recently wrote this on Facebook and I think it sums my argument up: 'Moaning about the present is popular enough to be the 5th element of hip hop' (or words to that affect) and I replied semi-jokingly 'getting off your arse and trying to change what you dislike is the forgotten 6th element'. I'm not having a go but I really don't see the point in complaining about something that you can change with hard work. If something means a lot to you, then go out of your way to work your arse off to change it, otherwise you only have yourself to blame when noone else does. If you want to hear n3xt level scratch music with no ahhs then make it and get it out there and you might influence people around you to do the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 One section of ahhhhhhhhhh cuts says "OK, you all know that this is the benchmark sample and here's what I can do with it", but then if you keep coming back to that it's boring IMO. The "production over patterns" excuse carries no weight cos using a different sample doesn't prevent you from using original patterns. Maybe some are worried that people won't notice what they're doing unless they use the benchmark sample, but that's hardly pushing creativity is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 One section of ahhhhhhhhhh cuts says "OK, you all know that this is the benchmark sample and here's what I can do with it", but then if you keep coming back to that it's boring IMO. The "production over patterns" excuse carries no weight cos using a different sample doesn't prevent you from using original patterns. Maybe some are worried that people won't notice what they're doing unless they use the benchmark sample, but that's hardly pushing creativity is it? Sure, I can agree with both of those and should probably retract my production over patterns argument in that respect. I don't think anyone (apart from maybe Yoshi ) wants to see someone cut aahs for an hour, or similarly see a DMC routine that is just aahs, then a beat juggle, then aahs over a different beat. For practice files the ahh sound is perfect for getting a point across or showing how you've developed and for shows the odd aah section can serve as a highlight, but not the bulk of a performance. Ooh another reason I like aahs so much is that they're atonal and work with any key and fit most styles of music too. Rap vocals or spoken word samples can be atonal too of course, but I find they can't always be used as freely as aahs can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Oh yeah, for practice files ahhhhhhh is perfect. None of what I said was aimed at d00b's file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm surprised that no one has brought up how easy it is to scratch with the ahhhh and fresh sample. I agree, they are "benchmark" sounds and very good for learning patterns. I am still in the land of "practice mode" and think more people should be until they actually have that shit down cold. exactly, if something is easy, then fuck it off and find something difficult to learn with. always go the harder route imo, it can only benefit you.when i work out new patterns its when im using an obscure sample that i just like the sound of. generally not even from a scratch record. i mean if you just like the aahhh sound, then that fine, and pretty useful in this scene. but after 20 years or something you cant complain if certain people have started finding it a little stale. the sample has literally no progression in itself. In fact I prefer aah battle routines to routines using loads of produced sounds where djs hide their lack of dexterity under their use of samples. Choosing to scratch different sounds but with old patterns doesn't make you different, it's arguably just hiding a lack of dexterity battles are different cos most battle djs cant cut. (for the most part, you know what i mean anyway)im not talking production over patterns, im talking about something that actually sounds decent. why is the pattern so important!?its like the randy quote in my sig. so what you can do the most technical ttm, if it sounds over the top, and just noisey, i dont want to hear it, and i wont say its 'dope' if you post a file demonstrating it. i feel this whole thing kicked off because i gave doob some actual feedback on his file. as i hear him cut alot, i thought i'd give some insight into my opinion of the file overall. i said i like the beat, and i could tell he'd be working on things, but part of the file is the sample he chose to cut with, and so i gave my opinion. that felt like the better option than just going 'nice one mate' which is what i normally do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Regarding that "if something is easy" comment, Jimmy, there's another thread on here where you say the exact opposite of that, lol. You know that "here's a brief example of a complicated cut" sample that Vekked uses? The lyrics of that song actually go: - Here's a brief example of a complicated cut....*DJ does complicated cut*,So what? For a song like this a cut like that would not be needed,If not used correctly then the purpose is defeated,For example... *DJ does easy cut*...sounds much better,However, many, aren't that clever..... I've always agreed with what he's getting it there since I first heard that record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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