Having someone else create your DMC routine.....

[djdiggla]

I'm with Steve on this.

 

if this is supposed to be an actual dj'ing competition....then sourcing your sounds and designing the routine are paramount because that's what dj'ing is. If you're paying someone to do either of those tasks for you, i'm of the opinion you just skipped two of the central aspects of the art.

 

 

^^Yes, and down with battle records too!^^

 

 

[Steve]

Should this count against you in the competition? Obviously, it's pretty much impossible to know if someone has created their own routine or not, but isn't creating a routine also supposed to be part of the skill of being a battle DJ?

 

 

Nah. I'd prefer DJs create their own set but ultimately their skills are what (should) make the routine.

 

Creating a routine is part of the skill.

[Vekked]

I think you're overestimating how much the producer does in this type of situation... It's not like you're getting a routine in a box where they send you a video of what the finished routine should sound like and you learn it, lol. The DJ who gets a custom set still has to do a lot of creating in order put a good routine together. You could give 10 guys the same scratch sentences and beats and even tell them what order they have to be in and the finished routines would be vastly different depending on the skill and style of the DJ.

[Steve]

Le jad said "it's rare to have the routine done, everything done and sent in a zip file". He didn't say "that never happens". He also said he'd build a routine for someone if they had a few samples and a juggle to get started. Patterns over production, but painting by numbers is just as big a skill as painting your own picture, eh Vekked?

[djdiggla]

Should this count against you in the competition? Obviously, it's pretty much impossible to know if someone has created their own routine or not, but isn't creating a routine also supposed to be part of the skill of being a battle DJ?

 

 

Nah. I'd prefer DJs create their own set but ultimately their skills are what (should) make the routine.

 

Creating a routine is part of the skill.

 

That's a slippery slope... Is downloading a tune or buying a battle record part of the skill your talking about? That's become generally accepted as ok because it's the norm. Where's the skill in that? Just like crate diggers who only buy stuff off the net--Pretty lame but if that's what they want to do then whatever.

 

The xmen all swapped sets to help each other. I'd bet the pervs did too. It doesn't bother me.

[djdiggla]

Essentially the DMC isn't a DJ battle--it was hijacked by turntablists long ago. Selector/producer skills help but that's not what matters and even if it did how would you even judge that.

[Le jad]

Some way to work are "bad" to some people's opinion.

The same way to work seems to be normal to other people.

Some people disagree on what is true or not, what is fair or unfair.

 

In the end some people talk about it 1 time in a year before the DMC, others work all the year and some go on stage to compete.

It's hard to understand what is working on a routine with some digital sounds and computers when you never did it or seen some people do it, for hours, for month. If you don't see it and understand it, you can't say what is wrong with it or not. I worked in the passed with some people who were using only real vinyls, and at the beginning no battle breaks (or only a few). Now i see people who work differently. they are not less creatice, they don't work less.

 

I would say it's even harder to start working on a set with some ideas and a computer.

 

Asking for a service that you pay, wich is being 100% produced and asking for a collaboration is totaly different. First case is really rare, from what i know.

[Jon]

Yeah, it's different from reggae Dj battles where in some cases DJs are just playing sets of tunes made by producers and mcs for them with little or none of their own input, in rare cases even without hearing the tunes before playing them in the battles.

I've never heard of a 100% produced set by another person. The only thing I can think of is DJs performing sets by their crew members in battles. One of pfels 2005 sets was written and produced by greem and some of Rob swifts routines were originally by Dr butcher right?

[Le jad]

C2C is one of the exemples, yes, not all the crew was writting the music they were playing live. 20Syl was the one doing the most. Also Pfel had some stuff produced for him too for his solo set. I think DJ Kohd had some stuff produced for him by 1 or 2 guys. Nobody can say that this turntablist is not creative (not hard juggle and scratch skills, but he had a style).

[Steve]

Should this count against you in the competition? Obviously, it's pretty much impossible to know if someone has created their own routine or not, but isn't creating a routine also supposed to be part of the skill of being a battle DJ?

 

 

Nah. I'd prefer DJs create their own set but ultimately their skills are what (should) make the routine.

 

Creating a routine is part of the skill.

 

That's a slippery slope... Is downloading a tune or buying a battle record part of the skill your talking about? That's become generally accepted as ok because it's the norm. Where's the skill in that? Just like crate diggers who only buy stuff off the net--Pretty lame but if that's what they want to do then whatever.

 

The xmen all swapped sets to help each other. I'd bet the pervs did too. It doesn't bother me.

 

WTF are you talking about? Putting a set/routine together is CLEARLY part of the skill of being a DJ.

[Jon]

Sorry I meant one routine out of his 2005 set. The second set of his Dmc six mins is a greem routine.

[Le jad]

But for C2C, I'm curious. I don't know who was writting the music, maybe 2 of the guys?

They had also musicians and even a singer who worked on 1 of their set. I know it's not comarable to somebody being 100% produced, but many people don't know anything about this subject and talk a lot about it since years.

1 guy told me one day he helped Pfel for the intro of his set, i don't know if it's true, but if it's trues, it's before 2006. For Kodh too.

[Guest loop skywalker]

This isnt new..1990 or a year either side...DJ Jay got to the uk finals with a very stand out set that i love to this day.The set was "given to him" by 2 other uk champion djs...i have this direct from the horses mouth.

 

On a side note ...the whole dmc thing lately is meh.

[djdiggla]

Should this count against you in the competition? Obviously, it's pretty much impossible to know if someone has created their own routine or not, but isn't creating a routine also supposed to be part of the skill of being a battle DJ?

 

 

Nah. I'd prefer DJs create their own set but ultimately their skills are what (should) make the routine.

 

Creating a routine is part of the skill.

 

That's a slippery slope... Is downloading a tune or buying a battle record part of the skill your talking about? That's become generally accepted as ok because it's the norm. Where's the skill in that? Just like crate diggers who only buy stuff off the net--Pretty lame but if that's what they want to do then whatever.

 

The xmen all swapped sets to help each other. I'd bet the pervs did too. It doesn't bother me.

 

WTF are you talking about? Putting a set/routine together is CLEARLY part of the skill of being a DJ.

 

No fucking shit. So is mixing. Who the fuck does blends in the DMCs? Fucking nobody that's who. If you read what I actually wrote you'd get what im saying. Dor the most part DJing skills were pushed aside in favor of turntablism in the DMCs. Nobody cares about blends, crate digging, crowd reading, etc with that. It's all technical. So who fucking cares who makes the set. Moot point. This same argument but with battle records used to bounce around and it was just as fucking dumb. "battle recs shouldn't be allowed in comps... Waaaaa" then it was "custom presses shouldnt be allowed booooo" then "serato shouldnt be allowed! Travesty!" and so on. Now it's come to this. Same stupid argument just modernized.

 

You and everyone on the board including myself has said tune selection shouldn't be a factor in judging the DMCs--just skill. So why does it matter who made the set? Picking music isn't a fucking judgible skill. It's part of DJing but it has no place in competition.

[Steve]

A DMC set is a thought out routine produced/arranged by the DJ (or should be IMO, considering it's a competition after all). If it took no skill, then Le Jad wouldn't be able to earn money from it would he, you dopey cunt?

 

If I give a DJ battle records and Serato, he doesn't have a set. He still has to think through his routine and create it. It's a COMPLETELY different issue to someone being paid to create a DJ's routine for them. It's like me giving you 20 records which you then use to make your own beat Vs. me just making the beat for you and saying "here you go". You're trying to say "they're both the same!" - of course they're fucking not in terms of skill/talent.

[Jon]

I think picking music should be judged... If you manage to flip a type of music unused in dmcs before or use unconventional music then it should be scored higher then someone used played out tracks, provided they're on a similar technical level. Blends/transitions are super important, as are basic Dj skills like mixing in key

[Vekked]

If I give a DJ battle records and Serato, he doesn't have a set. He still has to think through his routine and create it. It's a COMPLETELY different issue to someone being paid to create a DJ's routine for them.

 

How much difference do you think there is between giving someone beats/sounds versus creating their routine, if the producer is not a turntablist?

[Vekked]

I think picking music should be judged... If you manage to flip a type of music unused in dmcs before or use unconventional music then it should be scored higher then someone used played out tracks, provided they're on a similar technical level. Blends/transitions are super important, as are basic Dj skills like mixing in key

 

Yea I agree. I think it should primarily come down to who's the most skilled, but given 2 pretty much equally skilled, music selection should obv be a decider. It also depends whether someone's using new music and doing normal stuff, or using new music and doing something different. I rate routines like Troubl's Prefuse or Precision's Whole World juggles much higher given that the songs they used resulted in patterns/techniques that hadn't been seen before because the songs are an unconventional rhythm to begin with.

[Steve]

If I give a DJ battle records and Serato, he doesn't have a set. He still has to think through his routine and create it. It's a COMPLETELY different issue to someone being paid to create a DJ's routine for them.

 

How much difference do you think there is between giving someone beats/sounds versus creating their routine, if the producer is not a turntablist?

 

What do you mean?

 

It really is blowing my mind that people are defending this lame shit, lol.

 

I think it should primarily come down to who's the most skilled

 

Would you call creating a routine for someone else a skill? If someone is great at it, would if be fair to say "that person is skilled in creating routines"? Cos if so, why do you want to completely ignore that skill when it comes to judging the battle? Is it because you've paid for help with your routines?

[Le jad]

It should be like this... competition means this or that... DJs should not do this...

 

So a few points:

 

- Many people think that turntablist should flip only popular songs that people know, in order to make people understand better what happens, this is something I heard about since ages - Jon you say exactly the contrary. Toadstyle already said he thinks battles should be like this (of course we all know he's a battle DJ) : the guys should use exactly the same records, it would be more faire.

 

- "If I give a DJ battle records and Serato, he doesn't have a set. He still has to think through his routine and create it. It's a COMPLETELY different issue to someone being paid to create a DJ's routine for them." OK we agree, you say exactly what happens when a DJ works with a producer. If I work with a DJ, he still have think how he will organise his routines, use his skills, rebuild some parts, change some samples, edit the beat, and many other things. So there's no massive difference.

 

I think you are more shocked by the fact that some turntablist pay for this service, as you don't point crew giving routine to each other, or the way C2C worked and so many people. The money hurts you i think. Is paying for a service makes the guy against hip hop or something?

[Steve]

Look what the thread title is and what post 1 is. The question was "if someone else creates your routine for you, should this count against you in a battle?" and what I'm getting is a pretty resounding "no", but I don't understand why. All this other bullshit you guys are coming out with is irrelevant. Explain to me why a DJ basically doing a cover version of someone else's routine is counted as "just the same" as if that DJ had created the entire routine himself.

 

It's like if I said to Dirk, "someone else wrote all of 2Pac's lyrics", would he be just as good an MC as if he write them himself? Fuck no. He's just a karaoke MC. You wouldn't say "it's only what the finished product sounds like that matters" which is what you're trying to do here, cos you have to judge the complete package and some of you guys are trying really hard not to do that in order to justify your wonky opinions, lol.

[Jon]

I think it should count against you, but I've never heard of a case where a Dj had their whole set arranged and produced for them happening before.

[Le jad]

I already answered to the title of this topic. The answer is yes.

 

Many DJs were pointed as "le jad pre made routines" at the world and in national championships. At the world especially at the premils, where guys talk to each other, feeling more free to say exactly what they think. But the idiots who said "Fly was produced by le jad" don't know anything. I never produced for him, but some people wouldn't have vote for him! some people in national champs already kicked of some DJs because they used some of my sounds or routines that i worked with them.

 

So yes, it already happens, it counts against many DJs. In reality. In competitions. But should it be a rule? lol... NO. Because turntablists should use only popular songs, non-edited, no EQ, no mastering, nothing. Or only the same scratch tools. (like CCF 1, you could only use superseal over the same beats). I'm not sure it's the best for the public who pay their ticket. But I would prefer something like this (it doesn't have to be like this, i say, I would appreciate this):

 

A category at the DMC or a special battle, where there's a selection of songs, the DJs have to come and battle with routines flipping the songs, popular songs (maybe not as popular for a chinese guy...). The public can hear the song just before the first round. That's where we go if we follow your way of thinking. But why not?

[Vekked]

what I'm getting is a pretty resounding "no", but I don't understand why.

 

...

 

Explain to me why a DJ basically doing a cover version of someone else's routine is counted as "just the same" as if that DJ had created the entire routine himself.

 

Oh I think it's because most people thought you were asking about a situation that's actually happening. Show me some of these cover routines.

 

The argument stems over your detachment from the theoretical situation of someone making a routine for someone cut for cut and the other person performing it, and the reality of that being hard as fuck to do, and any DJ that would actually do that probably isn't going to be any good anyways. If someone could make a routine to cover that was actually good enough to win the worlds, why wouldn't they just do it? How many DJs are going to be competent enough to cover is successfully?

 

If in some dmc many years in the future what you're talking about actually happened then sure it'd be worth figuring out some rules to penalize it, but currently I see no reason when it's not really an issue.

[Steve]

"Having someone else create your DMC routine" as a thread title is pretty clear in its meaning, is it not? Also.....

 

If somebody ask me to create 100%, it's rare to have the routine done, everything done and sent into a zip file lol

 

Perhaps I've lost my grasp of the English language here, but saying "it's rare" means it happens, but not very often. If he never created 100% routines, he would surely have said "I would never 100% create a routine"?