Steve Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Being one of the older gentlemen on the forum, I got into hip-hop when scratching was in its infancy, so I heard a lot of new techniques at the time they were discovered/invented. Also, when I was actually trying to learn scratching, it was all chirps, stabs, tears, drags and so on as the flare, crab and what not had yet to be discovered. Listening to a lot of new school scratchers, it's like some of them have forgotten about the older scratches. It sounds technical and impressive, but it's not something I really like listening to over and over. It's kinda like watching a guitarist shredding and you think "wow, he's fucking good", but if he only ever did that you'd get bored of it. I guess this is one of the reasons why I like D-Styles, cos sometimes he'll be doing easy scratches, then he'll transition into complicated stuff that I can't even get my head around and the sum of those parts that range from simple to very complicated sounds a lot more pleasing to my ear. He's not the only top tier scratch DJ to do that, but he's a prime example. For instance, Yoshi talks about a combo D-Styles sometimes does in this thread: - http://www.digitalvertigo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=30115 And it's a combo that was done by a particular DJ back in the early 80s and was a bit of a trademark scratch for him, so I assume that D-Styles is mimicking that DJ/paying homage as he's also an "old cunt" (better get that in before someone uses that phrase to refer to me in any replies ) and no doubt heard that back in the day. So, what do you think? Do you think that some DJs are forgetting to look back as well as looking at what are the current "flavour of the month" combos and styles? There is definitely a nostalgia element in some of the scratching I listen to (Knights of the Turntables tracks for instance) that I wouldn't necessarily expect someone who's 18 to appreciate as it sounds like some n00b that's been cutting for a couple of months and they don't have the frame of reference I have in terms of when that scratching was done, but in terms of actual technique and combining old and new, easy and hard, I think some of that is missing now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekked Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I agree 100%. I would say that a lot of wack aspects of more recent scratching/beat juggling/battling/etc are a result of DJs not knowing the history/foundation of the art they are investing so much time in. I could say infinity about this topic... but I'm super tired right now so I'll just say I couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doppelkorn Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 So, what do you think? Do you think that some DJs are forgetting to look back as well as looking at what are the current "flavour of the month" combos and styles? There is definitely a nostalgia element in some of the scratching I listen to (Knights of the Turntables tracks for instance) that I wouldn't necessarily expect someone who's 18 to appreciate as it sounds like some n00b that's been cutting for a couple of months and they don't have the frame of reference I have in terms of when that scratching was done, but in terms of actual technique and combining old and new, easy and hard, I think some of that is missing now. I can't comment a lot on actual scratches and combos but I agree with this part in general in two ways. Firstly I think one of the reasons I don't really like battle stuff I see is that it's really far removed from the hip hop I like. The beats are too aggressive and the cuts are more reminiscent of technical guitar stuff like shredding than the kind of stuff you hear being done on golden era records. Sure, things move on but it sounds like people come to scratching having heard something they like from the 00s and have taken that and run with it rather than heard a lot of older stuff. I think that I have similar tastes to Steve in hip hop (but I suspect not in other things ) because even though I was born in 85 and he was born just after the Yalta Conference we kind of had the same chronology in how we got into hip hop. I kind of started from the 80s and worked my way forward. I think this is why a lot of scratch mmusic sounds off to me because it's way too far abstracted from "pure" hip hop as I know it because people have come to it through a different route than I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwote Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 100% agreed. That's why I wrote this article, http://kwotemusic.com/backtobasics.html in hopes that tablists that aren't focusing on foundation will realize the value of it and implement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blak Randy Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 3/4 of the supposed best scratchers in the world bore the piss out of me due to this reason. All sounds like the same shit over and over with no peaks and troffs. No energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I think it has something to do with to the fact that people have to teach them selves scratching. People (I did this myself) try and learn 2 click orbits, boomerangs etc before they're ready to. There's no set way of learning scratching like there is for other more formal instruments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 yeah its why i feel DMC's peaked with kentaro's set. there's been more techy stuff but its the way he builds up from something easily comprahensable and developes into something mindblowing, but you can follow it all the way. i watch people like netik and iemerg and just cant get as into it. scratching-wise, sessions like switchblade sermons have such a nice mix of simple scratches, complicated scratches, and im sure some flukes. thats what its all about... shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwote Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 There's no set way of learning scratching like there is for other more formal instruments... Learning from other instruments disciplines/music theory is what's missing from a lot of people who scratch. Anyone who looks outside of tablism for ways to approach music will have a HUGE edge on those that don't(most times). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 yeah for sure, I remember Sy saying that taking up the drums has helped his scratching loads. I can see why that'd help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay5 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 yeah for sure, I remember Sy saying that taking up the drums has helped his scratching loads. I can see why that'd help. scratch dj,s can learn alot about rythms from jazz drummers because they drum in odd numbers or notes and switch between odd and even (3,5.7,s etc,etc)and its this that makes them sound so funky and improvised,,so slipping in a 5 note scratch like a hippo (1 click forward and 2 clicks back)before or after a even note scratch like a 2 click orbit will make it more funky,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwote Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 3 click to 2 click combos sound dope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie(the)goonie Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 yeah for sure, I remember Sy saying that taking up the drums has helped his scratching loads. I can see why that'd help. Not so much drumset, but playing something like marching snare teaches you (and taught me) "rudimentary" concepts that begin at the most basic level - you only have two sticks and one drum, everything is based off of a single or double stroke. Things like dynamics, syncopation, inversion, and multiple stickings to achieve the same sound (style). When I apply that type of thinking to scratches it keeps me from being stale. This might sound like gibberish to non-drummers but certain drum rudiments can be directly related to scratches, and that made it easier for me.ie. paradiddle stick pattern: (R-L-R-R-L-R-L-L) vs. autobahn record hand (F-B-F-F-B-F-B-B). It's the same for Flams vs. Rubs, Heritas/Triplets vs Boomerangs... To answer the OP - I think it has to do with the turntablists we see around in our own generations, we just mimic their style for good or worse because there are no set standards to begin with. In contrast, ALL drumline snare drummers are taught the same 26-40 rudiments and it is pretty much universal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 wat iv found is most ppl who diss the nu style of skratchin is cos really, they cant do it... its not even nu skratchin really, its the same shit we been doin 4 years just done in a different way or combined differently or clicks hit on a different note. keep pushin boundries all the way is wat i say... i learned the hard way, on a mixer not built for skratchin, and on belt drives, any1 remember kam gm25? yeah well that wat i started my path on that, transforms and chirps n tears. im glad its progressed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfoly Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I agwee wiv dis gi! Its da nu style dats da best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 wat iv found is most ppl who diss the nu style of skratchin is cos really, they cant do it... its not even nu skratchin really, its the same shit we been doin 4 years just done in a different way or combined differently or clicks hit on a different note. keep pushin boundries all the way is wat i say... i learned the hard way, on a mixer not built for skratchin, and on belt drives, any1 remember kam gm25? yeah well that wat i started my path on that, transforms and chirps n tears. im glad its progressed... http://i.imgur.com/F0wzT.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 what people generally call nu school isn't actually new at all. it's just another term for WAY TOO MUCH 2 CLICKING. then some diversify and start developing a 3 click fetish, which isn't that much better. let's go back to 1 click (like that d-styles combo and, of course, chirps) and funky stabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfoly Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I remember saying this years ago and getting slated for it. The point is not the technique but the style. Furthermore have we not had this same conversation about 300 times in different ways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I agwee wiv dis gi! Its da nu style dats da best!I remember saying this years ago and getting slated for it. The point is not the technique but the style. In confused... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doppelkorn Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I think he was taking the piss in the first one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfoly Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I agwee wiv dis gi! Its da nu style dats da best!I remember saying this years ago and getting slated for it. The point is not the technique but the style. In confused... I woz makin funz wot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I agwee wiv dis gi! Its da nu style dats da best!I remember saying this years ago and getting slated for it. The point is not the technique but the style. In confused... I woz makin funz wot! Oh! a joke! I get jokes Lolzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 the point never went over my head steve and im not saying this so called 'nu style' is the best, i just like it it wen its done well... and that is all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 the point never went over my head steve and im not saying this so called 'nu style' is the best, i just like it it wen its done well... and that is all It was never really an old Vs. new argument to begin with. My point was that you shouldn't neglect the "old" scratches just because you can do the new ones and that the best scratchers combine them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 and i agree they do sound dope wen combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidrocketbooster Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Did you guys read this article? Subtleness vs Obviousness – By Ricci Rucker: http://www.studioscratches.com/subtleness-vs-obviousness-by-ricci-rucker/ " Have you ever tried to scratch at 45 bpms? A daunting task." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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