The Ruck Deck

[Guest Mike Reezy]

I never said it was an insturment and I never said it was me drumming.

 

 

As a sound tool, its production abilities are endless.

 

I can play that sound on the table and then alter it in ways not possible with drums.

 

I never said it was an instrument, and I never claimed to be playing it.

 

In production you can definitely outdo anything done with real instruments.

[Guest Deeswift]

I disagree.

[Guest Mike Reezy]

I disagree.

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with what (quote me)? and in what ways?

 

I only said one thing that wasnt a fact (in my last post)

 

unles you are disagreeing iwth what I said I said.......

[Dekorum]

I think hes saying you CANNOT outdo every real instrument with production. Try to outdo some Hendrix guitar solos with production, =P.. Not possible.

[Guest Deeswift]

Exactly. Playing records and manipulating them is never gonna outdo something like that. I love scratching, I don't care to try and turn it into something it isn't, I'm happy with scratching being what it is.

[Guest Mike Reezy]

I think hes saying you CANNOT outdo every real instrument with production. Try to outdo some Hendrix guitar solos with production, =P.. Not possible.

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ok, ill play the hendrix solo, off the hendirx record, and I will proceed to chop the solo out and do shit that jimi couldnt do on a guitar.

 

It may not be better(at this stage of skratching), but it definitely has the possibilty to be better.

 

The facts are facts, there alre levels of sound manipulation achieved with a turntable+mixer that cannot be achived with the traditional sound, and it applies to all sounds, encompassing all instruments.

 

I never said OUTDO, I just said limitless.

 

It doesnt have to be better or outdo something to prove that its limitless, the simple fact that I can take that record, put it on a turntable and manipulate it in ways you couldnt without it, is obvious evidence to the fact.

 

Do you guys hear what Im saying?

 

The turntable is not better than any instrument

 

I really wouldnt even call it an instrument

 

It can manipulate sounds in a completely unique way

 

These manipulations can be applied to any sound, be it made by an instrument, or a live recording of a bird singing a song

 

 

This turntable will blow any other turntable made to date, out of the water.

 

And about this comment

 

Exactly. Playing records and manipulating them is never gonna outdo something like that. I love scratching, I don't care to try and turn it into something it isn't, I'm happy with scratching being what it is.

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I bet people were skeptical about guitars at first also man...........

[Guest Deeswift]

Ummm, OK, whatever.

[Guest Mike Reezy]

Ummm, OK, whatever.

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you cant even respect me enough to adress my post or what?

[Dekorum]

Yeah I understand it can do some shit that the original instrument cannot, for sure. But it definitly cannot reproduce the same sound without the sample.. I dont even know if you said it could but I'm just saying it cant, lol. Ofcourse its gonna be the best turntable out because it can do what everyother table can do, and more (what you said earlier). Any idea when its coming out or if it really is going to? (Is the picture the one that says Type1 and Type2?)

[Guest Mike Reezy]

.. I dont even know if you said it .....

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I didnt.

 

 

But just for the sake of an argument, a guitar is not gonna be able to make any sounds without the sounds contained within the strings.

[Guest Deeswift]

Ummm, OK, whatever.

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you cant even respect me enough to adress my post or what?

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Heh. Don't see it as a diss, I just can't be bothered to argue about it. It doesn't even matter.

[Guest Mike Reezy]

Ummm, OK, whatever.

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you cant even respect me enough to adress my post or what?

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Heh. Don't see it as a diss, I just can't be bothered to argue about it. It doesn't even matter.

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no arguing involved I just want to clarify this shit....

[Guest Deeswift]

[2ndhand]

for playing tunes using a variety of different samples and sounds use one of these

 

[Guest Mike Reezy]

i prefer this

 

 

it even has midi!

[2ndhand]

i like the look of the scratch pad.

but some vinyl purist whinger will say "its not real scratching"

[TopherEightyFive]

you can only manipulate what has already been created. that is the limit of turntables. a pianist can sit down, improve a solo. without that solo being recorded on wax it will be very dificult to recreate it with the same dynamics as it was originally played. you can probably do it but definitely not on the fly like a traditional instrument can. its almost like saying that adobe audition is an instrument cause you can recreate the solo but its still just manipulating recorded sound. that is a big limitation.

 

but it does have properties that allow it to manipulate sound in real time like nothing else. it has the potential of blowing every other instument out of the water like you say, but that depends on what sounds you have to manipulate (a limitation). a turntable by itself is nothing and a mixer by themselves does nothing.

[Jon]

umm you could do one of those needle on slipmat 'noise' routines with the faders and eq

 

but i see what u mean

[Liam]

Exactly. Playing records and manipulating them is never gonna outdo something like that. I love scratching, I don't care to try and turn it into something it isn't, I'm happy with scratching being what it is.

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I totally agree with that sentiment, it seems like huge retrograde steps are being made in the name of 'progress'. Applying musical theory to the turntable seems to me an exercise in pointlessness -worse, it's stifling the free spirit of scratching.

 

I don't disagree with all of what Mike says, but I think he's missed the point. I'd never argue that the turntable isn't an amazing production tool with outstanding potential, but 'limitless' potential? The key to the turntable is that it IS limited, VERY MUCH SO.

 

Creativity is often derived from working within boundaries, and exploring the potential to push these limitations. I've noticed several jazz names bandied around in this thread, anyone with a reasonable knowledge of jazz will know that more than most forms of music, jazz relies upon very strict sets of rules, and methods of bending them.

 

I'm not sure why I'm saying all this, anyone with half a brain knows all this

[Westwood]

I totally agree with that sentiment, it seems like huge retrograde steps are being made in the name of 'progress'. Applying musical theory to the turntable seems to me an exercise in pointlessness -worse, it's stifling the free spirit of scratching.

You hit the nail on the head baby!

 

[Liam]

Having said that, it's not like I think D, Mike or Ricc are making bad music or anything, quite the opposite, som of it is really interesting. I just wish they wouldn't act like they're going to change the face of music when they haven't even changed the face of DJ'ing.

[HaterNob]

God dammit I hate this age old versatility of the turntable bollocks. I mean, they're not are they, in a musical sense anyway. It's bollocks, sorry! Why is it that anybody who's ever played a musical instrument seems to be sceptical of the turntables potential as an instrument where as those that haven't seem to have formed the opposite opinion?

 

The music created using turntables and turntable manipulation alone is incredibly limited IMHO. That's not to say limitation is a bad thing however, in fact, limitation can often invoke more creativity in a sense but at the end of the day all that's going on with this shit is that the Sampler is being replace by the DJ and I think the sampler does a much better job.

 

pz

[Max]

To anyone who understands this, I think it's a classic case of Nietzchean ressentement

[Guest Deeswift]

you can only manipulate what has already been created. that is the limit of turntables. a pianist can sit down, improve a solo. without that solo being recorded on wax it will be very dificult to recreate it with the same dynamics as it was originally played. you can probably do it but definitely not on the fly like a traditional instrument can. its almost like saying that adobe audition is an instrument cause you can recreate the solo but its still just manipulating recorded sound. that is a big limitation.

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Plus on piano you can play chords and solo over the top simultaneoulsy. If you wanted to play chords on turntables, and also create some beatiful solo on the fly, how are you gonna do it? You'd need loads of turntables playing a separate note each to make up the chords, and that's not practical for one person. Unless you use Ricci's deck and have some kind of musical scale, but then you'd need multiple people to play chords and arrange the piece. Now, somewhere along the line, I can see the emotion being lost here, because you can't express yourself in the same way as sitting down at a piano and playing it. If a DJ can play something that sounds as good as a Kieth Jarrett improvised solo, I'll eat my words, but we know that this isn't gonna happen. You have all these limitations. Or are you gonna take someone elses piano piece and play it on a deck, mess with it a bit, fade parts out, cut bits in, and act like you came up with something new? It's like stealing a car, changing the wheels, painting it, then claiming it as yours!

 

I am happy with scratching the way it is, and I see the turntable as an instrument, sometimes a very limited one, and sometimes a very useful one, but only in the hands of someone with the ability to produce something that resembles music. If that sounds odd, I understand why. It's not good enough to buy a set of decks, then a month later claim your title as "turntablist". If being a musician was as easy as that, we'd probably have fryingpan-ists, ironingboard-ists, basically anything that you can use as a musical instrument-ists. That's kind of disrespectful to true musicians who work hard to learn their craft for decades.

[Max]

can i get a witness