A discussion about mixer price

[Steve]

I'm sure the mark-up on some mixers is pretty massive. When Pioneer released their T1 mixer it was over £1,200, then as soon as the Z2 came out they cut the price buy more than half. Either they began selling the T1 at a loss, or that £600+ they were charging on top was pure profit. Obviously, I understand that companies charge what they can get away with.

 

At the other end of the scale you have companies like DJ-Tech. I wouldn't say that their mixers compete with Pioneer on quality (although I don't know for sure), but they are clearly operating on quite low margins. Their new 4 channel mixer with a Mini Inno, effects and stuff will sell for $309 which is £188. Crazy.

 

What I want to ask is, are you put off by a mixer being too cheap? Or, do you think that some companies just take the piss with price and are charging way over the odds just because they are well known brands? Perhaps a bit of both?

[djdiggla]

I'm turned off by prices being too high for mixers.

[mfsop]

Well, I did get suspicious when equipment is cheap and advertised as having "pro quality". A lot of young DJs over here have been lured into elevator (mail order)'s trap when they claimed that the new Reloop turntables were stronger than Technics and that their mixers were superior to the Vestax PMC series.

With the internet is has gotten a lot easier to find out which product is a real bargain and which just has false advertising. Personally, I've never spent more than 220€ on a mixer (this far I've bought an SK-5, UMX-5, 05 Pro 2, SA-8 and HAK-360) because there's always something good on ebay or on sale.

 

To answer your question: I guess that some entry prices aren't based on what you get. Hardcore fans will buy the new mixer when it comes out and after a few months the rest will be under the impression of "saving" a few hundred pounds. I don't want to get all out conspiracy nut, though. Still, I guess that Pioneer can afford the lower sale numbers at the beginning and then lower the price when need be. Counterexamples might be the Gemini UMX series or the Pioneer 707 which were dropped suddenly to about a quarter of the original price.

[Steve]

I'm turned off by prices being too high for mixers.

 

For me, it depends. I'm not put off the Rane 62 by the price - I just can't afford one.

 

When the price is too low though, I think "what's wrong with it?". In the case of the DIF-1S, it had a couple of shortcomings, but let's say that those were fixed in the newer mixers - I would still think "why is this so cheap?", but I don't know if that's fair or not. I think setting your price too low can be a bad thing purely because of perception.

[djdiggla]

I guess if it's like $100 I'd think "why is it so cheap?" but for me the brand rep is more important than the price. Rane for example--great brand quality but fuck I can't pay $2k for a mixer!

[DJ Rock Well]

With Pioneer, I'm sure that the slashed prices of the DJM-T1 and 707 the reduced price represents the cost of the mixer to Pioneer in some form or another. I'm not sure if that means just cost of components and manufacture or if it includes other percentages of the cost R&D and running the Pioneer empire.

 

I guess some of the mark up includes the reseller's profit too, although I always thought that was pretty low.

 

Although, when I bought the 05IV they had been 550 everywhere, but by the time I got the money together most places were doing them for a new price of 670. I found that decks.co.uk were still doing the old price but when I went to order it they were out of stock. A week later I got a call from them announcing a restock but when I came to pay the price was 670. I explained what had happened and said it wasn't worth more than 550 to me so I wouldn't be buying it. Immediately, the girl on the phone said I could have it for the old price and unprompted, went on to explain that the price had only gone up at Vestax's insistance they pull their price in line with other resellers, that their dealer price hadn't changed and they made their standard mark up by selling them at 550.

[waxdestroyer]

the faders on the DJM 7000/800/900 etc... are mad cheap compared to Rane...At least that 4ch DJ Tech mixer has a mini innofader build in..but thats more like a scratch mixer than a club mixer

 

i owned both the DJM 707 and 909..reason for selling was i needed full dry fx so i got the HAK 380..the only problem with the 380 is that it doesnt have seperate fx for each channel like the HAK 360 but the 360 doesnt have full dry/wet feature..neither does the NUO 2.0 wich i had as well.

 

I think ill stick with the 380 for now..i got it new for 250 GBP (325 euro) so it was a bargain for me..usually they go for 500/600

[scottie(the)goonie]

I see mixers the same way I see laptops, except I don't replace them every 4 years.

 

I'm willing to buy a $1000+ mixer if I intend to keep it for decades and it has everything I need. I would pay extra for Pio and Rane because I know they will continue to be relevant in the future.

 

I can easily see the DJ Tech mixer being only fun for certain occasions, but collecting dust when not used.

[mfsop]

Didn't see anything about the cross fader but with A&H's standards the Xone 23 might turn out to be another basic and well-built mixer. 240 pounds without taxes.

http://djworx.com/namm-2014-allen-heath-xone23-mixer/

[goldielocksnthethreebrares]

Dont get me started on Rane, £2 grand? You can go fuck a goat, sideways!
I'd like to know the cost of making a 62 over say the DJtech mixers for eg.

Pioneer mixers no way cost £600 to manufacture, they are all ghetto.

[Jimmy]

Dont get me started on Rane, £2 grand? You can go fuck a goat, sideways!

I'd like to know the cost of making a 62 over say the DJtech mixers for eg.

 

Pioneer mixers no way cost £600 to manufacture, they are all ghetto.

 

 

your first point i think has some thought behind it, im curious myself. altho an immediate difference is built in SSL.

your second point doesnt really feel like it has much evidence or substance behind it tho...

[supacuts]

I hate Allen & Heaths.

 

That is all.

 

Carry on.

[Guest Symatic]

I dont like pioneer build quality either. I liked the 909 i guess but i would definately treat it with care. Pioneers stuff doesnt sound very nice to me either

[Guest Symatic]

Too cheap definately has me questioning a products quality, but then too expensive means i wont be buying it either so there you go. I normally wait till ive had a go on something or in sone cases ill let a thorough review convince me, like gizmo's reviews i find trustworthy.

I dunno why so many people hate a&h other than their weird fader knobs on their big mixers. But they sound good. Even xone 02 sounds good.

Rane ttm56 i would love to own, but since then ive not been as blown away by their build. Most people i know with a 62 have broken the faders...

[DJ Rock Well]

The 707 and 909 are sturdy - my old 707 had one of the hardest lives possible for a mixer and 9 years on it still soldiers on with no faults in the disrespectful hands of kids where I teach.

 

The rest of the Pioneer mixers I wouldn't be so kind to though. As for the sound, again the 707/909 had much more clarity than the 500, 600, etc... I remember being very surprised when I went from the vestax 06 to the 707 at how much better it sounded. That said it's a pretty bright, cold sound, very mainstream Japanese and I much prefer other makes on that front.

[DJ Rock Well]

Symatic - I agree on Rane. I don't think they make then quite like they used to.

 

Also, as good as the 62 obviously is, I think for the money it should be perfect. I've seen a lot of online grumbles of broken faders, cue buttons that only lasted 6 months and wobbly pots after a similar time.

[djdiggla]

The 707 and 909 are sturdy - my old 707 had one of the hardest lives possible for a mixer and 9 years on it still soldiers on with no faults in the disrespectful hands of kids where I teach.

 

The rest of the Pioneer mixers I wouldn't be so kind to though. As for the sound, again the 707/909 had much more clarity than the 500, 600, etc... I remember being very surprised when I went from the vestax 06 to the 707 at how much better it sounded. That said it's a pretty bright, cold sound, very mainstream Japanese and I much prefer other makes on that front.

 

My 909 screen is glitchy which REALLY pisses me off considering it's an expensive mixer.

 

I like A&H over most mixers. Rane is OK but retarded expansive and if you have an SL one and the usb port wears out then you got jack shit. Good buy if you are DJing out a lot I'd suppose tho.

[R Funksmith]

buddy of mine has a Rane mixer (sorry I dunno which one exactly), and after a gig he was drunk, he carried his stuff out to his car, he had to go back in for his keys, so he stashed the mixer under his car tire, went & got his keys, put his gear in his car (except, you guessed it, he forgot about the mixer), then went wherever to sleep. In the morning he returned, got in his car, drove away, "hey what was that strange bump?" Yup, he drove over his fucking mixer.

 

The extent of the damage was, he had to replace the knob thing on the cross fader. It's his regular gigging mixer still and works totally fine.

[djdiggla]

That's pretty insane

[DJ Rock Well]

diggla - I didn't think of that with the 909, I based my sweeping statement on my on my own experience with the 707 TBH.

 

Actually, when I bought the 707, my logical reason for not pushing the boat out and getting the 909 (apart from my credit card balance) was that I was afraid how long a touch screen would last.

[Guest petesasqwax]

I've literally only had 05pros so it's hard to comment. I've had the mk1, 2 and currently have a 3 and I honestly don't ever see any reason for me to change. I only got the 3 because it had the effects loop and I got a sick price on it because one of the phono channels was broken (I only have one deck, what the fuck do I care?) so I ended up selling my mk2 for it and making money on the deal

[goldielocksnthethreebrares]

I wanted to get a 909, but saw loads of complaints about the effect thing skatting out, so got the 08 never looked back!

The price, ok this is speculation but lets think about it, shops add at least 30-50% on the trade costs right, so straight away that brings that grand mixer down to between £500 - £700, for trade yeah?
Pionner dont make shit out of the goodness of their heart - because they are "nice guys", and a greedy expensive company like Pioneer, I bet add at least 30-40 maybe even 50% profit onto the manufacture cost, agreed? Maybe with say TVs where they plan to sell 10s of millions, the mark up maybe lower as the recoup will be easier to achieve, but on DJ mixers I bet it would be 30 -50% as the amount of intended customers is much lower.

Components, pretty generic, I doubt they use unobtanium to make the rotatries & faders etc, so I'd imagine the costs for said rotaries will be similar regardless of company sourced from, same with all the other shit, resistors, capacitors, PCBs etc. Faders may cost a bit more or less as different manufactures utilize different faders etc. But I'd imagine the electrical schematics and components are very similar. Fader caps, plastic buttons etc all made the same way and by the 1000s, regardless of shape & size, I bet cost a similar cost.
Are we agreeing thus far?

Ok, now compare said mixer to say the newish vestax 05, now compare what you actually get component wise, say 10 rotaries 3 faders etc. While bearing in mind that vestax cost £500 new, inc trader profit, manufacturer profit etc.

What exactly does that additional cost go on?!
They are just taking the piss!

[Guest rasteri]

The extra cost in the pricier mixers isn't component cost, it mainly goes towards paying the engineers that design the thing. Regardless of profit margin, the Rane/Pioneer mixers simply have a lot more man-hours of design involved, as anyone who has ever had to repair one will tell you.

[djdiggla]

diggla - I didn't think of that with the 909, I based my sweeping statement on my on my own experience with the 707 TBH.

 

Actually, when I bought the 707, my logical reason for not pushing the boat out and getting the 909 (apart from my credit card balance) was that I was afraid how long a touch screen would last.

The screen itself is fine. It's the efx bpm tap--sometimes makes the screen change to the curve control sometimes for no apparent reason. More obnoxious than anything. Those buttons seem real cheap/poorly designed.

[djdiggla]

I wanted to get a 909, but saw loads of complaints about the effect thing skatting out, so got the 08 never looked back!

 

The price, ok this is speculation but lets think about it, shops add at least 30-50% on the trade costs right, so straight away that brings that grand mixer down to between £500 - £700, for trade yeah?

Pionner dont make shit out of the goodness of their heart - because they are "nice guys", and a greedy expensive company like Pioneer, I bet add at least 30-40 maybe even 50% profit onto the manufacture cost, agreed? Maybe with say TVs where they plan to sell 10s of millions, the mark up maybe lower as the recoup will be easier to achieve, but on DJ mixers I bet it would be 30 -50% as the amount of intended customers is much lower.

 

Components, pretty generic, I doubt they use unobtanium to make the rotatries & faders etc, so I'd imagine the costs for said rotaries will be similar regardless of company sourced from, same with all the other shit, resistors, capacitors, PCBs etc. Faders may cost a bit more or less as different manufactures utilize different faders etc. But I'd imagine the electrical schematics and components are very similar. Fader caps, plastic buttons etc all made the same way and by the 1000s, regardless of shape & size, I bet cost a similar cost.

Are we agreeing thus far?

 

Ok, now compare said mixer to say the newish vestax 05, now compare what you actually get component wise, say 10 rotaries 3 faders etc. While bearing in mind that vestax cost £500 new, inc trader profit, manufacturer profit etc.

 

What exactly does that additional cost go on?!

They are just taking the piss!

 

 

 

 

 

R&D. Especially with a company that size. They are pushing the envelope which is costly and risky. DJTech and Vestax are mostly riding coattails--just perfecting things for a niche market. The target consumer makes a difference too--people are willing to pay more for a pioneer. Part of that is the sound quality and part audience..