Steve Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 SoundCloud has that automatic waveform scanning bullshit that automatically blocks your upload if it's found to contain a song that's in their "prohibited" database. Also, other users and copyright holders can report copyright infringement via a link on the page of any track/mix. It seems that SoundCloud are starting to crack down on repeat offenders, as someone on DJ Forums received this email today: - http://i.imgur.com/dis5G.png This sucks, because obviously anyone that's making mixes, mashups or remixes is likely to be infringing copyright. As DJs or amateur producers, we pretty much have to. While I respect the rights of copyright holders to have content blocked, or request that a track/mix is taken down, I think this is going to cause SoundCloud to lose a lot of users. The bad thing about this is, once you receive this email, what do you do then? You don't know if your next mix is going to get through or not until you try and upload it, but if you try and upload it and it is caught by the waveform scanner, you're fucked and you lose your account - including losing your money if you paid for a premium account. I can already predict Jimmy's response - "use Mixcrate", but the thing is, SoundCloud is where the listener base is at the moment. I get fuck all traffic from those other sites and uploading mixes to places where nobody listens to them is a waste of time. In time, hopefully either a new site springs up that takes SoundCloud's crown, or people migrate to Mixcrate or whatever in great enough numbers that another site becomes the top choice, but as of now, this kinda sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxdestroyer Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 their new layout kinda sucks as well..it was already perfect enough for me so why try to fix it? its like Youtube had a major change as well and no users were happy with the new layouts. uploading other peoples music is like a free promotion..like a radioshow so i dont get why there should be a copyright issue..it might get people to buy stuff they would otherwise not know about..like on youtube ppl promote underground hiphop and what do they get out of it? nothing from the labels..its a free promotion..copyright claims is pure greed unless the uploader claims to have made a song that isnt his Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 SoundCloud has that automatic waveform scanning bullshit that automatically blocks your upload if it's found to contain a song that's in their "prohibited" database. Also, other users and copyright holders can report copyright infringement via a link on the page of any track/mix. It seems that SoundCloud are starting to crack down on repeat offenders, as someone on DJ Forums received this email today: - This sucks, because obviously anyone that's making mixes, mashups or remixes is likely to be infringing copyright. As DJs or amateur producers, we pretty much have to. While I respect the rights of copyright holders to have content blocked, or request that a track/mix is taken down, I think this is going to cause SoundCloud to lose a lot of users. The bad thing about this is, once you receive this email, what do you do then? You don't know if your next mix is going to get through or not until you try and upload it, but if you try and upload it and it is caught by the waveform scanner, you're fucked and you lose your account - including losing your money if you paid for a premium account. I can already predict Jimmy's response - "use Mixcrate", but the thing is, SoundCloud is where the listener base is at the moment. I get fuck all traffic from those other sites and uploading mixes to places where nobody listens to them is a waste of time. In time, hopefully either a new site springs up that takes SoundCloud's crown, or people migrate to Mixcrate or whatever in great enough numbers that another site becomes the top choice, but as of now, this kinda sucks. I 100% agree with you, Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 uploading other peoples music is like a free promotion. Yeah, I wish the labels would see it that way. If anything, they seem to be getting worse. If someone wants to pirate a particular song, it's not that hard to find an unmixed version of it, so I really don't believe that someone would say "well, I was gonna buy this track, but now that it's in this mix I've downloaded I'm not going to bother". I think it's more likely that people download mixes, discover new artists, then go on to buy their music. Even if people download a mix, discover a new artist/song, then pirate the unmixed version or that artist's album or song - they wouldn't have bought it anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacken Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 there's a lot less freedom on the internet these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amatic Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 their new layout kinda sucks as well..it was already perfect enough for me so why try to fix it? its like Youtube had a major change as well and no users were happy with the new layouts. uploading other peoples music is like a free promotion..like a radioshow so i dont get why there should be a copyright issue..it might get people to buy stuff they would otherwise not know about..like on youtube ppl promote underground hiphop and what do they get out of it? nothing from the labels..its a free promotion..copyright claims is pure greed unless the uploader claims to have made a song that isnt hisi agree ..after update its nearly impossible to find your favorites and groups..why did they bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 soundcloud's not for mixes, I don't see what the problem is. they don't want them on the system, and they aggressively ban people who misuse the system... so use something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assemblyworker Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Going to go against the grain here but I always saw Soundcloud primarily being a platform for original music creators to share their music to a wider world. If they have a copyright system in place, which should be to protect those content providers (whether or not they do is another question) then it is only right that they protect the copyright holders in such a way. You can argue that it is free promotion but does that free promotion lead to the label getting any significant sales? The figures say other wise. Also, if radio plays your music you get a royalty for that play. The same cannot be said for DJ mixes and as much as the DJ might be promoting the musician, isn't the musician in turn helping the DJ get promotion by providing him or her with music to play? Soundcloud relies on it's original content providers but we should all just make music for free and be happy that someone plays it to a wider audience.... For free? No doubt some of you will now wish to kick me in the balls. Ouch. Edited January 18, 2013 by assemblyworker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 yeh thats a fair point. i always thought it was for producers, but i then got used to it being there as a dj tool as well. i guess it was just a matter of time. mixcloud is the obvious choice for hosting mixes as djs, but i personally dont like the look of it and the non-downloadable thing really pisses me off. and yeh they do get traffic, but not in the way soundcloud does. mixcrate is essentially perfect for me. i like the layout, and the way it works. also the guidelines work for me. the only 2 problems i have, is the sign up to download - which i personally dont mind, but can appreciate others will - and the lack of visitors. but then again, thats cos they're all on soundcloud. like Steve has said, maybe if everyone knew the best platform for the specifics then it would level stats/accessibility out somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assemblyworker Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Yeah the sign up to download is a pain... So much of the time you're asked for you email for this and that, making accounts on everything. There comes a point, for me at least, when I think I can't deal with more digital babylon and stop signing up for things. The funny thing is I don't think anyone in the entire music industry really knows what to do at the moment. Everyone's fumble around in the dark little a 12 year old who just found his first porno mag in the woods (old school real talk).... Kids these days don't even find there first porno in the woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy penguin Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 the whole site will be taken down otherwise.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 the whole site will be taken down otherwise.. They could try and strike up a deal like Mixcloud have. SoundCloud might be "not for mixes", but if all the DJs and amateur producers who are sampling/making mashups without permission left, the site would disappear up its own arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I don't see why though mate, it'd just be what it's always been intended for. I think to a certain extent the SoundCloud people want the butter on both sides of their bread because this 'DJ/Producer' phenomenon/fad brought a LOT of people to SoundCloud doing mixes, and it made the site huge enough for a bit of a blind eye to be turned. Now so many people think like you - that the site is what it is and should be kept as what it's turned into - that it's come round to bite em on the bum. I don't really have an opinion on it from a content perspective, I don't mind running into mixes on there and I've uploaded podcasts to it in the past, but I actually think there are other aspects to SoundCloud that could do with a tune up to make the site work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 yeh thats a fair point. i always thought it was for producers, but i then got used to it being there as a dj tool as well. i guess it was just a matter of time. mixcloud is the obvious choice for hosting mixes as djs, but i personally dont like the look of it and the non-downloadable thing really pisses me off. and yeh they do get traffic, but not in the way soundcloud does. mixcrate is essentially perfect for me. i like the layout, and the way it works. also the guidelines work for me. the only 2 problems i have, is the sign up to download - which i personally dont mind, but can appreciate others will - and the lack of visitors. but then again, thats cos they're all on soundcloud. like Steve has said, maybe if everyone knew the best platform for the specifics then it would level stats/accessibility out somewhat. Mixcloud sucks. I been trying to use it and they make it so hard to find people you've favorited. Very clunky. Also no DL built in which is crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 SoundCloud is only surviving because of huge injections of cash from venture capitalists. Their burn rate is huge. Pushing away the crowd that made SoundCloud a well known name is going to lead to them failing IMO. I pay for a particular premium tier so I can get extra upload minutes and I need those because I'm uploading 60+ minute long mixes. There are tons of DJs who do the same. Their "minutes needs" are greater than someone who is uploading short original works. Who here on DV would pay for a premium account if they couldn't upload mixes, mashups, remixes, or tracks with uncleared samples in them? Every time a song is reported as breaching copyright, that song is added to the database that the automatic waveform scanner uses, so the site is constantly getting more restrictive. They've taken something that was community driven, open, and artist-led and turned it into something that's listener-focussed and getting more and more restrictive every week. I realise that they had to do the latter to remain online from a legal standpoint - or at least, the way they've approached it is one option of remaining online - but I think they could have gone a different way. Mixcloud is much more DJ friendly and more artist friendly too. The thing it lacks is traffic. SoundCloud is like Facebook at the moment, in terms of "I go there cos that's where people are", but I think it's gonna be the next MySpace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie(the)goonie Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Has anybody else (on this board) tried uploading a set and gotten this warning yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 i've had 2 warnings in the past, but not this 'permanent ban' warning. twice was enough for me to loose my patience and find somewhere else. if im going to upload mixes, i want everything i do to be in the same place, and as that wasnt an option with soundcloud, i left. i maybe should point out i still have my account on there tho for getting original tracks. i just dont host anything myself there anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assemblyworker Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I pay for a particular premium tier so I can get extra upload minutes and I need those because I'm uploading 60+ minute long mixes. There are tons of DJs who do the same. That's a good point. I imagine a large proportion of people with upgraded accounts are DJs so they will lose revenue. Then comes the issue of monetising the site. I believe they have or at least are making it possible to sell music in the way that Bandcamp does. So then it's back to square one as a large part of the audience for music doesn't pay for content. I wonder if these venture capitalists are the same group of bellends that ruined the main stream music industry and lead it to the fucked up state it is in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 The guy on DJF said that he received 4 of the regular warnings before getting that final warning. I've received 3 warnings so far - one on DV Collab Mix 1, one on a GZA mix, and one on a multitracked mix intro I made that has part of a song by The Who in it. I think I'm gonna try a "ghost account" method. I'll create a second account (a free one), upload a mix, then if it gets through I'll upload it to my regular account. If it gets blocked then fuck it - it doesn't matter if the ghost account gets banned. I feel like a bit of a hypocrite for continuing to use SoundCloud given the things I've said about it, but it's either that or post my stuff up on sites where it'll get far fewer listens. I dunno what to do for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doppelkorn Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I've had two or three warnings so far; one for a really obscure crown noise sample taken from a live version of a song! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattnice Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 i've had a couple of bootleg edits not allowed to be upped, but i've never had a mix declined.When upping a track mix leave 5 seconds of silence at the beginning , that throws them off the scent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 I don't think any of that stuff works, Matt. I think they scan the entire waveform. They certainly scan more than the first 5 seconds. But there's also people on there reporting mixes and tracks too, possibly people that work for the labels, so they would just search by name - not much you can do there, cos if you change the name, regular listeners won't find it in searches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattnice Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 like i say i've probably had about 20 mixes up in the last year or so.i know loads of people who use the 5 second silence trick, always works for them.Maybe if you all stop posting up your EDM mixes they won't get taken down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 the ones i got warning about were a motown mix, and also a film score mix. ok both are fairly heavily licensed and but they arent edm, so that argument falls down Matt.infact my dnb mixes were always fine. also, both times i even switched up the order of my tracklisting as a test and they still got blocked, the 5 sec silence thing wont work if you have a track in their database, as steve says, they check the whole wave form. surely you're not allowed to post up edits anymore? also, if someone has 5 seconds of silence at the start of a mix i'd just think they were amateur. no one wants dead air on a track/mix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assemblyworker Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 also, if someone has 5 seconds of silence at the start of a mix i'd just think they were amateur. no one wants dead air on a track/mixAdds a sense of drama IMO.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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