Vestax PMC-08, Rodec Scratchbox, or Allen & Heath Xone: 02?

[drummy]

I'm looking to buy another mixer (and sell my 54i). I have a Pro X Fade, and I'm looking to pop it in somewhere. Of course, I want the Scratchbox for the obvious reasons (its third channel looks real good), but I don't think the price justifies what I guess. I haven't tried it out yet since I'm in the US, but at $1,000, I don't know if I want to buy a mixer of that price for good quality. The Rodec is nice because I could eventually get Infinium upfaders for it, but the PMC-08 upfaders are nice enough as they are, and I like all the curve adjustments, and the sound quality is pretty good too. The Xone:02 has really nice sound, and I really like how I can listen to both the line and phono inputs of a channel at the same time. I don't know about the upfaders though, haven't heard much about them. Also, I like the price of it, as price is a HUGE factor here. Any advice? Thanks.

[Liam]

The Xone was a steal at the price I paid five years ago, let alone now. If price is as important as you say, there's a huge divide there

[drummy]

The Xone was a steal at the price I paid five years ago, let alone now. If price is as important as you say, there's a huge divide there

Hmm...I know, but I just don't know. How are the upfaders in terms of quality and sharpness?

[Liam]

The Xone was a steal at the price I paid five years ago, let alone now. If price is as important as you say, there's a huge divide there

Hmm...I know, but I just don't know. How are the upfaders in terms of quality and sharpness?

 

Do you use them a lot then?

 

They're ALPHA railglides, roughly comperable to a Vestax PCV. But you can drop anything you like in there. My 5 year old OG Xone:02 came with the same ALPHA railglide on the crossfade as well, and that lasted over 3 years and still worked when I replaced it. They've just confirmed a set of fresh new paintjobs on the faceplate and PRO-X crossfade as standard on the Xone:02 now, don't know yet if they will hike the price at all

 

The only thing to mention about the upfaders is some don't like the way that using a sharp curve produces a cut at the bottom, not the top. I don't have a problem with this but some people do -it would be nice if A&H made it switchable for the new update.

 

EDIT make that CUSTOM faceplates... A&H will hopefully be issuing faceplates with custom designs, you just send them your file by the look of it. They look mint... I can't work out if it's only going to be aftermarket or how much it will be but fuck it, my old faceplate looks like I took wire wool to the fader area so I want one!

[drummy]

The Xone was a steal at the price I paid five years ago, let alone now. If price is as important as you say, there's a huge divide there

Hmm...I know, but I just don't know. How are the upfaders in terms of quality and sharpness?

 

Do you use them a lot then?

 

They're ALPHA railglides, roughly comperable to a Vestax PCV. But you can drop anything you like in there. My 5 year old OG Xone:02 came with the same ALPHA railglide on the crossfade as well, and that lasted over 3 years and still worked when I replaced it. They've just confirmed a set of fresh new paintjobs on the faceplate and PRO-X crossfade as standard on the Xone:02 now, don't know yet if they will hike the price at all

 

The only thing to mention about the upfaders is some don't like the way that using a sharp curve produces a cut at the bottom, not the top. I don't have a problem with this but some people do -it would be nice if A&H made it switchable for the new update.

 

EDIT make that CUSTOM faceplates... A&H will hopefully be issuing faceplates with custom designs, you just send them your file by the look of it. They look mint... I can't work out if it's only going to be aftermarket or how much it will be but fuck it, my old faceplate looks like I took wire wool to the fader area so I want one!

Yeah, I use my upfaders quite often and quite extensively. Oh, the sharpness thing makes it sound like the same system Rane uses. Not sharp on the natural setting, and the sharpest cut is on the bottom. Lame. As for the faceplates, I hear they're going to be expensive. And not very available in the US.

[HaterNob]

I didn't notice the 20 foot python slither into my Vestax 08 but FUCK ME can I hear that slimey little nigga hiss. Why must my mixer add so much fucking NOISE to the signal, WHY DAMMIT?

 

PS. 08 for sale...

[Bubba]

I own a Rodec...trust me it's worth every single fucking penny. Seriously bro. I took that thing out of the box, hooked it up, didn't change any single fucking setting and the thing beats any, and I mean any mixer I've tested to date. The fader is just mint. REally it's like butter, especially after you've cut with it for a bit. However the cut in's so accurate, that one of my mates who uses a Xone O2 had issues cutting with it. The sound is crazy. The processiing of the audio signal is amazing. The integration of different headphone settings is just ace. The third channel's great aswell, eventhough a bit quieter than the others, but that you can take of by adjusting the gain. My only slight criticism would be, that I have to get new cables for the xternal FX module, but that's a small sacrifice to pay for the quality you get delivered...I'm in love with this thing...it's just...beautiful.

 

I spoke to lamont (developer of the rodec) and he told me lots of dodgy stuff regarding the 08 (he doesn't own one but his mate does)...the rane's a great mixer, but the Scratchbox just adds those extras that makes me/so fucking happy!!!

 

So I say, buy the scratchbox, you won't regret it. Seriously, it's just the most amazing mixer I've ever tested...and that str8 out the box...so I've basically only changed those transform knobs a bit to fit my personal need.

 

pee.z

[Vekked]

I have the 08, love it, no beefs with it... the reason I got it over a rane was probably mostly cuz the upfaders, trust me, they're mint... the cut at the top, and cut fully at about 1 inch down on sharpest... so basically if you need them any sharper than that, use the crossfader... the crossfader cut-in is sooo dope, you can set it so sharp that it won't even cut, if that's what you want, lolll... I actually use it sometimes too, to make sure that my record hand is still coordinating right with the fader movements, haha... the digital click thing that people are complaining about is b.s. for the most part, you'll never hear it... haternob obv has a hissing problem in his, which sounds like a bigger issue... maybe he should send it back tho? I dunno...

 

the only reason to get the xone tho would be for price, cuz the vestax and rodec both kill it... the only thing with both is the potentially the crossfaders... with the vestax, if you like a really light crossfader, you're gonna be like '' when you first get it... it feels a bit stiff out of the box, but you HAVE to lube it as soon as you get it, and it'll take about a week to get used to, but now it's so sick... my fav fader now, it's not stiff at all now that it's worked in... the thing with the rodec is that it has the infinium crossfader, and I dunno, but kurteek had a mackie D2 with that fader and said it doesn't last so he got a rane...

 

for me, the scratchbox and vestax sound pretty much on par with each other, you can't really say that one's better than the other unless you've owned both for a month and tried them out... so I'd say whichever you can get cheapest, go for it, neither justifies the price over the other really...

[HaterNob]

You know,, I'm not sure it's a problem with my unit particullally. Mista Ed's makes loads of noise too. Vekked, would you do a test for me please dooder if you've got time?

 

Switch on your mixer and amp. Pull the channel faders all the way down. Turn the master volume past half. What's the snake saying? "hissssssssssssssssssssssssell me?"

[Vekked]

You know,, I'm not sure it's a problem with my unit particullally. Mista Ed's makes loads of noise too. Vekked, would you do a test for me please dooder if you've got time?

 

Switch on your mixer and amp. Pull the channel faders all the way down. Turn the master volume past half. What's the snake saying? "hissssssssssssssssssssssssell me?"

 

there's a hiss at like 3/4, but I imagine a lot of my hiss and maybe other is cuz the way we have it setup... like I have prolly 2 dozen cords and wires going all around my setup as well as fluorescent lights in my room...

[HaterNob]

The thing is the signal path we're testing here is mixer to amp since we've turned the channel fader down to 0. Oh, the session and mic channels should be a 0 too. So, the signal is passing through 1 wire. This suggests that it's nothing to do with the way things are wired. IMHO It's about the 08's inability to add significant gain to a signal without adding ten tons of filthy white noise.

 

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to test it out mang, that's helped me out a lot.

 

pz

[Vekked]

The thing is the signal path we're testing here is mixer to amp since we've turned the channel fader down to 0. Oh, the session and mic channels should be a 0 too. So, the signal is passing through 1 wire. This suggests that it's nothing to do with the way things are wired. IMHO It's about the 08's inability to add significant gain to a signal without adding ten tons of filthy white noise.

 

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to test it out mang, that's helped me out a lot.

 

pz

 

I dunno man, cuz when I turn the lights on/off, and move my stuff around alot, that amount of noise changes... I'd have to try my other mixers side by side, but I think they do the same?

[HaterNob]

Hmm, maybe man. I dunno, It just pisses me off when the DJ equipment companies charges proffesional production equipment prices for mixers that sound like shit. Sure we all feel the same!

 

pz

[drummy]

Alright. My mind is completely settled. From the testimonies I heard from Bubba and the 08 owners, I'm going to save up the extra cash to get the Scratchbox when it comes out here in a month.

[Mista_Ed]

HAHAHAHAHA

 

 

mike - turn the MIC volume down - done

 

lol

[Mista_Ed]

hmmm ...

 

just read all ur posts again mike -

 

mine made some noise cos of the mic being up....its totally 100% quiet now...no hiss no noise...

 

maybe its a dodgy one??

[Bubba]

Drummy.

 

I find the upfaders great. What I have to say though, is that I cannot speak on how long the fader's will last, because my mixer is only just one month old and I ahven't had a huge amount of time to really kill it.

In all honesty I don't know if you really need infinum upfaders...once you've tested the upfaders on the scratchbox, I think you'll be satisfied with what you've got. HOWEVER I'm not a big upfader cutter...but one of mate's who is and uses an ttm56, said that the curve on the rodec was far better...

 

Here's some insights (not from me, but this fellow I know...I'm gonna be careful in naming name's - don't want to get anyone hurt) regarding the 08, rane and the rodec...

 

The 2 jack sockets aren't mono, the 2 jack sockets in the Scratchbox use the tip and the ring of the 1/4 jack adapter, therefor making it stereo. If you use the exact 1/4 jack adapter with two rings as shown in the demo movie you can use stereo efx units.

The pedal that I used was a Boss DD-20 stereo delay pedal and it works perfectly! In short, it IS a stereo efx send/return channel.

 

 

Scratchbox vs Rane TTM-56.

I've been a Rane owner since 2004. I play in a group which is sponsored by Rane, this is the only time when I use the Rane TTM-56, I never take it out of my flightcase for any other gigs, I only use the Scratchbox because it's so much better, esspecially on big stages.

The EQ of the Scratchbox is very very detailed, every nudge will give you a different value this can't be said about the TTM-56 and the output levels are much higher.

The Rane TTM-56 is a very good mixer, both me and the R&D staff at Rodec definitely agree, but we made sure that the Scratchbox beats Rane in several compartments.

The way the TTM-56 is constructed, the sound quality, the pcb plates are top notch, Rodec calls Rane the Rodec of the USA :0)

 

 

Scratchox vs Vestax 08 Pro

The 08 Pro was released in a panic situation because they heard Rodec was working on a digital Hybrid mixer.

Rodec made sure that the Scratchbox worked perfectly before releasing it. Vestax chose to release the 08 Pro early and let the consumers be the adopters of the first batch.

 

 

Here are some issues that the 08 Pro has and Vestax is still working on solving these issues:

The CPU and firmware software for the curve adjustment is faulty which leads to weird static sounds when closing the faders.

The power supply would short circuit the mixer.

The mixer overheats and shuts down sometimes.

The sound quality of Vestax was always lacking!

The PCB plates are inferior.

 

 

A friend of mine who has one of the issues (CPU problem) is getting his third 08-Pro, he's thinking about getting a refund if the third one fails him.

Many great DJ's like Pro Zeiko, DJ Eprom, Krime to name a few sold their Vestax 08 Pro's and got themselves a Scratchbox ...says a lot!

I must admit, I am a bit biased towards Vestax, but they let me down several times through the years in both build quality and in customer service.

The 08 Pro has many more features compared to the Scratchbox, but if the mixer doesn't work properly then all the bells and whistles are worthless.

Keep in mind Rodec is a European company and servicing is identical to Rane, which is excellent!!!

 

 

Some more points about the faders and curve adjustments:

The fader resolution and cut-in time of the Scratchbox is 6 steps better than the Rane TTM-56 and you can definitely feel the difference.

Your cuts sound sharper, more precise and cleaner overall.

You can achieve a 0-100% cut on both ends of the volume fader, much better than the Vestax or HAK 360/380 which has a 3-4mm lag.

It's the best and most detailed curve control in the world, nothing can beat it currently !!!!!!

Check the demo videos on the Scratchbox website, you will see that no other mixer can achieve these many types of curves.

 

 

The Scratchbox works with several different faders:

Penny and Giles, PCV, Pro X Fade, INFINIUM, TKD Profader. ...no modding, just plug and play.

All faders are interchangable, you could plug in 3 Pro X fade crossfaders, 3 PnG's, PCV's or Infiniums, whatever you want.

 

 

Hope I helped you out.

 

 

 

Hope that helped a bit....basically all of that info had me sold and I don't regret buying teh rodec...

 

Trust me I was so suprised at how much better my cuts sounded on this thing. Just cleaner. Then also when I opened up the mixer I thought, jeez these peeps are just plain genius, you've got different cables to use for the faders depending on which brand you're using...so no modding of the cables...fukcing ace!!!

 

Anyways, I think it's worth it...

 

pee.z

[Wax On]

just wanna throw the HAK-380 into the mix...

 

...i got one and its a real nice mixer, plus its got the line fader sharpness top or bottom...

 

from what i hear the rodec's the daddy

[Liam]

Is there any point illustrating the merits of the Scratchbox any further? By all educated accounts it clowns every scratch mixer out, but then again it's seven hundred fucking quid so it bloody well ought to.

 

As for Vestax rush-releasing products... I've not seen the 08, but having looked at the inexcusable botch they've made of the 280's signal layout it certainly sounds likely. Either way, some retarded mistakes are slipping through the net

[Blak Randy]

I actually use it sometimes too, to make sure that my record hand is still coordinating right with the fader movements,

 

You're fucking touched boy.

[Vekked]

I actually use it sometimes too, to make sure that my record hand is still coordinating right with the fader movements,

 

You're fucking touched boy.

 

:S does that mean what I think it does? do you have a plane ticket to canada?

[HaterNob]

hmmm ...

 

just read all ur posts again mike -

 

mine made some noise cos of the mic being up....its totally 100% quiet now...no hiss no noise...

 

maybe its a dodgy one??

 

I'm beginning to think that is is mate. I need to compare mine to yours really and see if mine is worse. IF it is then it's off to Vestax.

[Liam]

I'm beginning to think that is is mate. I need to compare mine to yours really and see if mine is worse. IF it is then it's off to Vestax.

 

Lol seems that a LOT of 08's are getting sent back

 

On the plus side, I'm gonna play Russel Grant here and predict massive, massive price slashes. Remember the 05D? Nobody bought them and all of a sudden they were being knocked out for pocket money (although I'd still pass)

[2tall]

scratchbox rules. no big talk needed, just try and realise.

 

vestax fall apart

allen and heath have wack faders

[Liam]

allen and heath have wack faders

 

Errrr... they come with a PRO-X now Jim.

 

The fact that the A&H is even IN this thread says it all really, nobody in their right mind believes the 02 is up to Scratchbox standards, but we're talking double the price here. It's not a fair comparison to begin with, end of discussion. If you've got six or seven hundred notes burning a hole in your pocket then fair enough but we're talking about completely different classes here.

 

A&H offers a level of quality you'd be very hard pressed to get at such a low price tag, the Scratchbox is clearly offering a level of quality that cannot be found anywhere at any price tag, so it's top dollar.

 

My opinion is biased because I've lived on a very tightly managed budget for so long, yours is rightly biased by a need for the very best gear to produce your work. Either way it's a win-win scenario in my book, all that remains is how deep your pockets are