Steve Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 http://www.b3ta.com/images/challenge/drugproducts.jpg http://www.b3tards.com/uploads/Cillit-Bong.jpg http://mat.rubberfeet.org/stuff/quattro-syringe.jpg http://www.theincider.com/uploads/b3tagum.jpg http://www.b3tards.com/uploads/ketamine.jpg http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/916/syringes26kr.jpg http://www.afinkawan.co.uk/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/drugtv.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/g1n_munk3y/Pot.gif http://www.themoononline.com/imagesone/happydeal.jpg http://www.sayagain.co.uk/b3tapix/images/Cocaine%20Straws.jpg http://www.emcy.co.uk/images/antacid.gif http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/8986/babyfood28lx.jpg http://ben.someaddress.net/meth1.jpg http://www.booth.demon.co.uk/Pizza-Hut.JPG http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/chewbaccas_mate/B3ta/thebong.jpg http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4071/sonypcp3ue.jpg http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3338/aspirin25wr.jpg http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1902/soap9hf.jpg http://www.booth.demon.co.uk/bg_left_cornflakes%20copy.jpg http://www.b3tards.com/uploads/soup.jpg http://www.outthere.nildram.co.uk/rohypnol.jpg http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/610/lab6lk.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 LOL at the last one's eyes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas pete Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 a friend of mine actually said it would actually be quite sensible be legalise all drugs and have them dispenced through the NHS. i thought that sounded like a crap idea then he explained about how much crime is caused to pay for drug habbits. by having users registered on a database then their usage could be mnitored. because the drugs could be mass produced by the nhs for literally pennies the money saved from crime, prostitution and reduced police time taken investigating the above it would be quite good all round for everybody. plus it would also stop importd drugs cos they would not be able to compete with free drugs. it will never happen though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 a friend of mine actually said it would actually be quite sensible be legalise all drugs and have them dispenced through the NHS. i thought that sounded like a crap idea then he explained about how much crime is caused to pay for drug habbits. by having users registered on a database then their usage could be mnitored. because the drugs could be mass produced by the nhs for literally pennies the money saved from crime, prostitution and reduced police time taken investigating the above it would be quite good all round for everybody. plus it would also stop importd drugs cos they would not be able to compete with free drugs. it will never happen though!<{POST_SNAPBACK}> probably the most stupid idea ever!! apart from the obvious blatent health risks, there's economic factors which would suffer as a result... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dextrous Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Legalising all drugs is the only sensible way forward. What's stupid about the idea Huw? If skag was made legal tomorrow would you go and buy some and use it? I wouldn't. The idea that drug use would increase is not a logical argument. Crime is the biggest problem associated with drug use and legalising drugs would remove the drug/crime connection. Anyway I don't really have time to put this whole argument forward at the moment but I'm sure I have done on here in the past if you want to search. Just out of interest what do you think should be done about drugs? Keeping to the current prohibition situation that is obviously working wonders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Legalising all drugs is the only sensible way forward. What's stupid about the idea Huw? If skag was made legal tomorrow would you go and buy some and use it? I wouldn't. The idea that drug use would increase is not a logical argument. Crime is the biggest problem associated with drug use and legalising drugs would remove the drug/crime connection. Anyway I don't really have time to put this whole argument forward at the moment but I'm sure I have done on here in the past if you want to search. Just out of interest what do you think should be done about drugs? Keeping to the current prohibition situation that is obviously working wonders?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> legalising wouldn't remove the drug/crime connection. all the dealers that are out there, what are they going to do? think to themselves 'oh the nhs is doing my job now, i'll just go and get a job that pays fuckall in comparison at the local offy'?? no way! they'll probably keep selling drugs at undercut prices, or turn to other areas of crime that are worse, people smuggling, contracts or whatever. if skag was legal would i buy it? no. would addicts buy it? yes. is heroin fucking up their lives? probably. you can't hold a job properly and still be addicted to hard drugs, i used to work with a crack addict, and he was fucked half the time, a proper state. know how he kicked it? doctors told him he had a couple of years left to live max i he continued at the same rate which scared the shit outta him, as he's got a little girl and stuff. so you're proposing that instead of saying to addicts 'you'll kill yourself' we say to them 'yeah it's bad, but here have some for free and do it anyway'? fuck it, why don't we give them free fags and a couple of bottles of absinthe too? also, how do you propose we pay for all this to happen? if it ever happens, the government will ahve to fund it somehow. they'll either cut back spending somewhere else (and i'm not having my education fucked because of some filthy addict), or they'll have to raise taxes. Unless of course they charge for it. in which case people will still have to steal and turn to crime to afford it. and my stance on drugs is, keep them all illegal. i'd say you should illegalise fags and booze too, but it's so ingrained into society that peoples livelihoods depend on it, so it's near on impossible to do. it's an aalmost impossible problem to solve, so leave it as it is i say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas pete Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 legalising wouldn't remove the drug/crime connection. all the dealers that are out there, what are they going to do? think to themselves 'oh the nhs is doing my job now, i'll just go and get a job that pays fuckall in comparison at the local offy'?? no way! they'll probably keep selling drugs at undercut prices, or turn to other areas of crime that are worse, people smuggling, contracts or whatever. also, how do you propose we pay for all this to happen? if it ever happens, the government will ahve to fund it somehow. they'll either cut back spending somewhere else (and i'm not having my education fucked because of some filthy addict), or they'll have to raise taxes. Unless of course they charge for it. in which case people will still have to steal and turn to crime to afford it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The way it works is all the drugs are free via the NHS. it would cost next to nothing to make the drugs (mass production style like that aspirin that costs 19p a pack). drug users register on the drugs program and they get their prescription of whatever they use. This regestration covers how much they actually use of the stuff and a program of being weened off the shit. cos the drugs are manufactured properly and not cut with anything else to make a profit you are guaranteed not to get any brick dust in it! sure it will cost some money to set this up but on the plus side you would find...*no drug dealers because how you try to sell something that is free anyway! *no drugs being imoprted cos who is gonna import a valuable product that you cant sell. reslting in the navy and coast guard actually doing their real jobs! *no drug addicts breaking into cars and houses for stuff to sell for their next hit.*no more muggings for the same reason*police can actually do other jobs like patroling the streets and checking up on the drug users rather than dong drug busts and raids.*number of hours in court being reduced from all the drug cases that wont exist.*strain reduced on the NHS from lower number of people coming from fooked up drug use it all adds up and saves quite a bit of tax payers money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxander Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 *no drug dealers because how you try to sell something that is free anyway! -You sell it with a gun and kill people that you see going to the hospital to get their fix. You only need to make an example of a few people to scare everybody away from the program. Drug dealers aren't exactly the most concerned with others' lives. *no drugs being imoprted cos who is gonna import a valuable product that you cant sell. reslting in the navy and coast guard actually doing their real jobs! -As above. This may cause drug dealers to even unionize kinda and strengthen overseas ties. *no drug addicts breaking into cars and houses for stuff to sell for their next hit.*no more muggings for the same reason -I'm just curious how you would market something administered through a government program to someone that is probably incoherent most of the time and has to do this kinda stuff to get a fix? Put a sign inside your car that says "don't take my shit! the hospital will give you what you want for free!" *police can actually do other jobs like patroling the streets and checking up on the drug users rather than dong drug busts and raids. -There is a human factor in economics... now if there were a lot less drug dealers and related crime, how many police man hours do you think each precinct would need. Probably a lot less. So what would they do? Probably fire some cops. Probably fire A LOT of cops. So do the po po really have an incentive to stop all the drug related crime, I don't think so, unless most of em are hiding a deep rooted desire to work on the local assembly line. *number of hours in court being reduced from all the drug cases that wont exist. -This will thrill lawyers whose focus is in narcotics. They are surely a dumb bunch and will not lobby the gov't w/ a slew of statistics on how bad drugs are and how bad drug legalization is. *strain reduced on the NHS from lower number of people coming from fooked up drug use -There are just as many people fucked up. You gotta realize most addicts don't get clean cuz they're not ready to give up the drugs, not cuz rehab doesn't exist. it all adds up and saves quite a bit of tax payers money!-Not so sure... sounds like billions of dollars in beauracracy. All in all, I admit, I may be totaly wrong and overly skeptical, but I think this solution is about as bad as the current situation. I would love for it to work but I can't imagine that it would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chile Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 legalising drugs is the most backward thing ive ever heard... you want the health system to hand out drugs which have extreme negative effects on mental as well as physical health.. WTF? yea maybe crime rate will go down for theiving but i can bet violent crime will go up from people completly losing their minds, also the already crippled health system will be completely fucked when trying to treat people they make ill with their drug hand outs as well as people who actually need treating for health issues which have nothing to do with drugs.. these people will suffer the most too having to wait on never ending waiting lists.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 -There are just as many people fucked up. You gotta realize most addicts don't get clean cuz they're not ready to give up the drugs, not cuz rehab doesn't exist. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> bingo. they'd rape the nhs then start going black market again once the nhs stops freebies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas pete Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 it wasnt my idea so im not gonna waste my time trying to think f ways i defending it! these were just the ideas behind his theory. its quite amusing how many people actually make a living out the legal side of criminals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dextrous Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 they'll either cut back spending somewhere else (and i'm not having my education fucked because of some filthy addict), or they'll have to raise taxes. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As I say I don't have time right now but personally i think drug addiction is an illness not a crime in itself. You obviously don't agree otherwise phrases like 'filthy addict' would not come into play. If we're not on the same footing of considering addicts to be ill then my arguments will be wasted on you. it's near on impossible to do. it's an aalmost impossible problem to solve, so leave it as it is i say. Excellent solution :s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr v Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 drug users have to register to recieve thier drugs? so you could register for a few pills for friday night, maybe a bit of coke saturday, and then some weed for chilling out on sunday? also, there are always going to be new users. the only way to stop that is to stop the drug physically existing, people WILL experiment no matter the warnings. so new users just go and register as well? what about age restrictions, surely you're not gonna make speed etc. legal to children, which then creates a market for under 18 drug sales. i support the argument and beliefs behind it, but implementing it would be so completely impossible that it's never gonna happen. high society by ben elton is a read based on this theory as well, not too bad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chile Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 As I say I don't have time right now but personally i think drug addiction is an illness not a crime in itself. so your idea of treating an illness is handing them the drugs to feed their addiction.. also, there are always going to be new users. the only way to stop that is to stop the drug physically existing, people WILL experiment no matter the warnings. so new users just go and register as well? what about age restrictions, surely you're not gonna make speed etc. legal to children, which then creates a market for under 18 drug sales.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr v Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 just another thing thats on me head, i could get hold of weed very easily from age 13-14 onwards, and it just got easier, where as getting hold of alcohol was a mish and a half (first legal drink in 13 days ooo yes) but now by the time i'm allowed to purchase alchohol, i'd much rather go have an amazing night on a bit of mdma.i know how to restrict my use, and take it easy and respect the drug, but many many people don't. not sure of the relevance, but i felt it needed adding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dextrous Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Personally I reckon smack should be legal aswell. Some people are gonna use it whatever and others aren't. It's legal status makes very little difference. Smackheads cause A LOT of crime to pay for their habit. If you provide smack for free then they aint gonna need to commit crime to pay for it.Attempts to crack down on addicts are stupid. Let me give you an example. In my home town there was a real push against smack dealers. Basically one morning the police went out and busted virtually every dealer in the town at the same time. No more smack, nice one you'd think. Well the thing is that left a lot of very rattled addicts. Addicts aren't gonna think 'no more smack, ah well better just have a cup of tea instead'. The casualty department of the hospital was riddled with them, slowing down treatment for everyone else. Plus herion supply is a tangled web, word gets out the town is dry so other people move in. Increase in demand means prices go up which means smack heads commit more crime to pay for it.Great idea busting all them dealers eh? Lets face it people have been using drugs for centuries whether they are legal or not, and they will continue to do so.Education and support is needed for problem users not arrest and punishment. As for heroin- well adiction needs to be looked at as an illness not a crime. I know what you're saying Sig but saying addicts are 'weak' is like telling someone with depression to 'just cheer up a bit' and thinking that's all you need to do. As for subsidising heroin - I don't think it should be subsidised I think it should be FREE for true addicts. Heroin is actually incredibly cheap to produce, it's just the whole supply and demand thing that causes it to be expensive on the street. The great thing is that doing this would end up costing the public less in the long term as you're saving plenty on the cost of dealing with the crime associated with Heroin. There's no easy answers to these situations but as a society we need to take a much more open and adult approach to drugs. I'm not saying that you just give it away to anyone that wants it, I'm saying you provide free heroin as long as the addict fulfills certain conditions such as attending programs to give up, returning all needles, taking it under supervison so that you don't get people taking it out for others etc etc I'm not saying I'm an expert on the details. Generally a user is gonna take the easiest route to getting a fix. Basically all I'm saying is that if someone wants to fuck temselves up on smack then let them. I just don't want them burgling my house or mugging my gran to pay for it. As a point of interest who on this thread has actually had first hand experience of addiction in others- any more than a 'crackhead' at work? Again I will also ask what the alternative solutions are to a system that is clearly failing? There is no magic wand. The best solution we've had so far is Huws Ostrich impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 Imagine if they gave out free cigarettes to anyone that attended a course about giving up though man. I really don't think that would work with any addictive drug. It would be abused. When I said before that people are "weak" I mean weak-willed. I can't talk because I smoke cigs, but I don't go and rob people to feed my addiction to Embassy Number 1. I think it's a case of damage limitation rather than saying "this doesn't work so let's try a different approach". Legalising drugs isn't the answer IMO. If smack is free to heroin addicts then I want my free booze money and weekly sack of pound coins to go and play the fruit machines. I promise I'll give up...honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabedc Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 OK... for the facts.....Amsterdam is a prime example. If we legalize softcore drugs, they would be abundant and in my opinion become cultural. Amsterdam has the lowest crime rate in the world and the least "hardcore" drug use. If ONLY weed was legalized, i think things would improve, crime, economy (definitly), and overall moral (after all the pissed off people take a chill pill and smoke a blunt). Im not saying that crack and heroine will dissapear, however, i would put money on people giving up their illegal/expensive/risky habbit for something a bit more relaxed and calm. just my two cents... yall can hate me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 Looking at the FBI data in table 1 on page 64, the violent crime rate in the US was 504.4 per 100,000 inhabitants, while property crime ran at 3656.1 per 100,000 inhabitants. The Dutch Central Bureau for Statistics has crime numbers online, but not the crime rate. The table shows 101,143 violent crimes and 919,262 property crimes in 2001. With a population of 16,171,520 (September 2002), this works out as 625.4 violent crimes per 100,000 people and 5684.4 proprety crimes. Or, to put it differently, the violent crime rate in the Netherlands in 24% higher than in the US, and the property crime rate is 55% higher.Taken from an article here: - http://qsi.cc/blog/archives/000144.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 As a point of interest who on this thread has actually had first hand experience of addiction in others- any more than a 'crackhead' at work? Again I will also ask what the alternative solutions are to a system that is clearly failing? There is no magic wand. The best solution we've had so far is Huws Ostrich impression.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> perhaps i should hhave clarified. he's a damn good mate, worked with him for about a year, had good times. but seen him do crack pipes in the toilets at work, snort other stuff off the bar after hours etc etc. i've also experienced him having a fucking seizure from it, so i'd say i've seen as much as i need to. following on from steve, if we provide free drugs, then we also have to provide free sex for the sex addicts (yes there's such a thing), free money for all the gambling addicts, free food for all the people that are addicted to eating etc etc. and no i don't think addiction is an illness per say, because the person has a choice of whether to start in the first place. you don't suddenly become an addict without first experiencing something and going out of your way to experience it. you can wake up with cancer for reasons beyond your control. you don't just wake up one morning and think 'fuck i need a skag line'. and weed should definitely not be legalised either, it's worse for you than ciggies and is a gateway drug, the govenrment is actually right for once!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 As a point of interest who on this thread has actually had first hand experience of addiction in others- any more than a 'crackhead' at work?Two of my friends are dead through addiction - one heroin and one alcohol - the latter only passed away two weeks ago. Another heroin addict ex-mate of mine set fire to another friend's house, while him and his house-mate were asleep in their beds. I've never been addicted to a drug other than nicotine, but I have been addicted to gambling - only fruit machines, but I used to blow all my wages on a weekly basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 EDIT: sorry hit quote instead of edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 mad hilarious pictures.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabedc Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 how is weed worse than ciggs?! i believe otherwise. Ciggs have rat poisen and causes cancer...tell me how many people have died from weed... and ill tell you your wrong..answer is 0. Andddd...its only a gateway drug if you let it be, there are people who arent as easily influenced by other drugs.Smoke pot. it does a body good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 Over here people mix weed with tobacco and then smoke it with no filter which is worse than smoking a cigarette with a filter. All my mates that smoke weed also smoke cigarettes. The only person I know that smokes weed now and then but doesn't smoke ciggies is my girlfriend. All the people I know that took/take harder drugs started by smoking weed. Now either this is a massive coincidence or it is actually a drug that leads on to something else cos people want to try more potent things. Maybe nobody has died, but has anyone ever suffered from depression, anxiety, paranoia or more serious mental illness because of cannabis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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