The Ruck Deck

[Guest Deeswift]

How much can the pitch be adjusted by?

[Gizmo]

If manufacturers actually came and asked for feedback on forums such as this and Asis etc. they may actually come up with a product people wanna buy, instead of there being about 100 turntables on the market and only half a dozen worth looking at.

 

That's exactly what they do and that's the problem. That's why we have 20 or so good scratch mixers. Everyone wants a piece of the pie.

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sorry i'm not sure by what you mean by the problem. A diverse market place is far preferential to a monopolised one, surely?

 

coughwindowscough

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What I mean is that the scene is oversaturated with too many mixers that are of a high quality, good price with all the features we all want. It's murder to pick between them and even hard to review, differentiate and recommend one over another. If you look at it, the market really isn't that diverse.

[Steve]

I think that's a good thing! If you review three mixers that all perform equally then you'd probably buy the one that was cheapest right? I would. That would surely drive prices down?

[ripple]

How much can the pitch be adjusted by?

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I think it was +-16%, there are no limits if you replace the pot however.

 

 

 

Except for maybe the temperature of your motor...

[snuff]

I think that's a good thing! If you review three mixers that all perform equally then you'd probably buy the one that was cheapest right? I would. That would surely drive prices down?

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agreed,

 

sorry gizmo, i just think in this case you're wrong. Are you getting the hump with reviewing too many mixers or something?

 

that would give me the right arsehole, but i think it's a good thing overall....

[Steve]

I read that the more you adjust the pitch range with that mod, the less accurate the pitch becomes. I dunno if that's true or not. I guess it doesn't really matter unless you're mixing anyway.

[Gizmo]

I think that's a good thing! If you review three mixers that all perform equally then you'd probably buy the one that was cheapest right? I would. That would surely drive prices down?

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That's what seems to be happening. There seems to be this magic £300 figure emerging as target price for a solid scratch mixer.

[Steve]

Why are mixers sometimes twice the price here compared to America? Is it just to rip us off, or is there some valid reason?

[snuff]

Why are mixers sometimes twice the price here compared to America? Is it just to rip us off, or is there some valid reason?

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economies of scale, they have a larger market also factor into account that most products are cheaper there and most stuff is the same price in pounds as in dollary-do's then they're not getting a better deal, comparatively speaking they're paying the same as us, but if we buy a mixer from the states then we're getting a better deal than them. genius eh?

[HaterNob]

Is there any product in the world that isn't half the price in the US compared to the price in England? I can only think of P&G faders, Tyrells Crisps (sick crisps btw) and maybe Lotus cars!

 

pz

[dextrous]

I read that the more you adjust the pitch range with that mod, the less accurate the pitch becomes. I dunno if that's true or not. I guess it doesn't really matter unless you're mixing anyway.

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I think ultimately the pitch pot is a calibration tool so fucking with it will probably affect accuracy.

 

Also anyone attempting to do this read up on it. It IS NOT the dial just under the platter, thats for voltage control and you WILL fuck your deck if you change that around. (Just a disclaimer cos sooooo many people have killed their techs doing this)

[Steve]

There's some info on that mod and others here: -

 

http://info.bergenteknomafia.com/tech/links/

 

I can't vouch for any of the information.

[x2k]

Werd up. You don't try and play a piano concerto with a penny whistle, well, maybe if you're a smack head!!

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Fucking PMSL

[HaterNob]

There's some info on that mod and others here: -

 

http://info.bergenteknomafia.com/tech/links/

 

I can't vouch for any of the information.

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Steve man, you are the dope link master! Nice one dood, I've got summit to read now!

[Liam]

Post a file of Beethovens 9th being performed purely on turntables, or maybe a turntable solo that even comes close to something John Coltrane would perform.

Turnables are cool but they CAN'T do everything. I think too many people are actually severely limiting themselves by pretending the turntables use is unlimited

 

That quote is perfect, Dextrous.

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I couldn't agree more. I try not to get on the Ruck-bashing waggon too often, but the truth is I really don't think there are that many musicians today that are on some John Coltrane shit, let alone turntablists. As far as I'm concerned, the only three things Ric could match Coltrane in are his repugnant attitude, disdain for other artists and vastly inflated ego.

 

As for Technics pitch mods: yes, there is plenty of potential for increase. It varies slightly from deck to deck, but the figure lies somewhere around +/- 20%, in my experience. It's a good idea to tune it as well, I find that new Techs are now very often shipping adjusted to well under 8%, often around 6% on the new decks I'm seeing.

 

As Steve mentioned, if you increase the range over which the fader is spread, then you will lose pitch resolution -IMO the Techs are probabbly shipping at +/-6% now because some newer decks DEFINATELY have better pitch resolution; anyone with experience of lots of beatmixing on (for example) PDX's will definately know the score there. Having said that, this is of little consiquence to anyone who can pitch-bend mix.

 

Adjusting the Tech to +/-16% is probabbly a smart move for those who wants pitch range, since this closes the gap between the 33 and 45 regions by quite a considerable margin. I don't see how having greater pitch range than that offers any great advantage.

 

I've always said I'd sooner see a deck with a +/-20% coarse adjust slider, and a fine-tune knob to adjust between +/-1%. I can lock down a mix very quickly on the Techs, but I'm pretty sure that with fine adjust, I could lock it far more accurately in the same time. Come to think of it, I botched in a pot to do just this on a pair of Omnitronics I used to have. It worked very well, but I didn't want to commit to drilling holes etc. as I planned to sell them as soon as I had the moolah for 12's.

 

I'm also sceptical about the Vestax ultra-pitch. I'm pretty damn sure that they DON'T achieve a full +/- 50%, in fact I'd be surprised if they achieve much more than 30% in the negative direction.

 

Shit, I've been lured into another g33k conversation.... ah well

[Mixologist]

Liam, we're on a message board, we're all geeks

[FlipFlop]

my good friend Sidetrak actually came up with this idea EXACTLY durring the time Ric and D came up with it....he got a email or was told on the asis boards not to go through with the design ha.

[Huw]

I'm also sceptical about the Vestax ultra-pitch. I'm pretty damn sure that they DON'T achieve a full +/- 50%, in fact I'd be surprised if they achieve much more than 30% in the negative direction.

 

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why's that mate?

[Guest Mike Reezy]

Post a file of Beethovens 9th being performed purely on turntables, or maybe a turntable solo that even comes close to something John Coltrane would perform.

Turnables are cool but they CAN'T do everything. I think too many people are actually severely limiting themselves by pretending the turntables use is unlimited

 

That quote is perfect, Dextrous.

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I couldn't agree more. I try not to get on the Ruck-bashing waggon too often, but the truth is I really don't think there are that many musicians today that are on some John Coltrane shit, let alone turntablists. As far as I'm concerned, the only three things Ric could match Coltrane in are his repugnant attitude, disdain for other artists and vastly inflated ego.

 

As for Technics pitch mods: yes, there is plenty of potential for increase. It varies slightly from deck to deck, but the figure lies somewhere around +/- 20%, in my experience. It's a good idea to tune it as well, I find that new Techs are now very often shipping adjusted to well under 8%, often around 6% on the new decks I'm seeing.

 

As Steve mentioned, if you increase the range over which the fader is spread, then you will lose pitch resolution -IMO the Techs are probabbly shipping at +/-6% now because some newer decks DEFINATELY have better pitch resolution; anyone with experience of lots of beatmixing on (for example) PDX's will definately know the score there. Having said that, this is of little consiquence to anyone who can pitch-bend mix.

 

Adjusting the Tech to +/-16% is probabbly a smart move for those who wants pitch range, since this closes the gap between the 33 and 45 regions by quite a considerable margin. I don't see how having greater pitch range than that offers any great advantage.

 

I've always said I'd sooner see a deck with a +/-20% coarse adjust slider, and a fine-tune knob to adjust between +/-1%. I can lock down a mix very quickly on the Techs, but I'm pretty sure that with fine adjust, I could lock it far more accurately in the same time. Come to think of it, I botched in a pot to do just this on a pair of Omnitronics I used to have. It worked very well, but I didn't want to commit to drilling holes etc. as I planned to sell them as soon as I had the moolah for 12's.

 

I'm also sceptical about the Vestax ultra-pitch. I'm pretty damn sure that they DON'T achieve a full +/- 50%, in fact I'd be surprised if they achieve much more than 30% in the negative direction.

 

Shit, I've been lured into another g33k conversation.... ah well

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The turntable is unlimited.... i can take any sounds made by the best musician in the whole world past or present, and I can play it just the same + (this means its more and inifinite) I can freak it in ways that werent possible using the traditional instrument.

 

You cant argue that.

 

Agreed the turntable wouldnt have any sounds to manipulate if those artist hadnt 1st made the sound.......... but if you accept that, then the turntable is a limitless production tool.

 

Im not even sure where I stand on the turntable as an insturmentdebate, but I would almost go as far to say that its more of a production tool.

[Huw]

please give me evidence of someone that can play the turntable with the dynamic ability of a jazz trumpeter of concerto pianist etc...

[Steve]

Playing a record of Virgil Donati's drums is not you drumming or using the turntable as an instrument. If you were talking about real turntable drumming where you actually manipulate the sound, then nobody will ever get close to what someone like he can do on a real drum kit.

 

I'd like to see someone take the sound of a guitar string being plucked and try and emulate a guitar solo too. It just ain't gonna happen.

[Guest Ryan]

All these quotes i'm takin from you steve anyone would think im humping you on the sly

[Mixologist]

Yea i'd have to agree ryan, how much is he paying you?

[Guest Mike Reezy]

I'd like to see someone take the sound of a guitar string being plucked and try and emulate a guitar solo too. It just ain't gonna happen.

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if people thought like you steve, the guitar would never have been invented, poeple would still be playing with strings...........

 

 

And like I said... (dont know if you read it or not...) I dontknow where I stand on the 'turntable as an instrument' debate.

 

I clearly stated that (IMO) I feel its more of a production tool.

 

And you are still shying away from my comment that the turntable can output any sound and thensome. THats a fact.

 

Any sound anyone made can be played on a turntable and altered in way that it cannot be otherwise. Thats a fact.

 

I never said it was an instrument, and I dont even want to get into that debate.

 

Its so pathetic, that I even have to talk about this, any musician would realize that the turntable is a useful tool for music manipulation/creation.

 

All these great people who you say "can you do what he does on a turntable" would probably agree with me on it.

 

this is very similar to people not liking people who use keyboards vs. real pianos...... simple black and white closed mindedness.

 

or how people dogged on Miles for going electric

 

its just another tool for creation, not an end all be all of musical instruments.

 

Its not better (thats subjective) than any other musical tool, its something that can compliment it greatly, and thats what im trying to say.

 

its like saying drum machines are shit, and you should use real drums, but thats not fair... our whole culture is based off of doing things in ways that "you werent supposed to".

 

 

A turntable is a turntable, and I think this turntable will blow every turntable out of the water.

 

How can it not? If it does everything any other table does and more?

 

cosing off with what I started with

 

I'd like to see someone take the sound of a guitar string being plucked and try and emulate a guitar solo too. It just ain't gonna happen"- Steve

Its not gonna happen, and thats not what I have been saying (again I dont know if you read any of it b4 you post).

 

But, if you took the guitar solo you are talking about, and pressed it to vinyl, I could Factually manipulate it in ways not possible with a guitar.

 

And thats what it comes down to.

 

The turntable can take any sound from any source and flip it in ways that are not possible with any other tool.

 

It is definitely unlimited (in a production sense), I can take any sound speed or slow it to any speed, and then press it to vinyl , so ultimatley the pitch possibilites on a turntable are limitless.

 

please give me evidence of someone that can play the turntable with the dynamic ability of a jazz trumpeter of concerto pianist etc...

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record their greatness onto vinyl, and then I can apply the turntable to it, which provides completely litmitless and original outlets for sound manipulation.

[Guest Deeswift]

Playing a record of Virgil Donati's drums is not you drumming or using the turntable as an instrument. If you were talking about real turntable drumming where you actually manipulate the sound, then nobody will ever get close to what someone like he can do on a real drum kit.

 

I'd like to see someone take the sound of a guitar string being plucked and try and emulate a guitar solo too. It just ain't gonna happen.

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Word. Props.