Jon Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Did jimmy hack your account? i think this is worst than asking if there's any pre-ripped film dialogue! It's the same man. Both instances are for mixtapes, which are meant to be showcasing your own selection/digging/mixing, and you're asking for content from other people. Asking for advice on a technical front to help you make your ideas a reality is perfectly acceptable in my book, but in both instances asking for content which you could both easily find yourselves with time and research seems a bit lazy, on par with biting a setlist off another DJ. Sorry for being a kill joy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Asking for help is the same as biting a whole set list off another DJ? Are you mad? There's many instances of people getting help from other people with their productions etc. Take that LL Cool J mini doc that someone posted, where his mate found him the sample and gave it to him to play around with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doppelkorn Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 You never answered my question about the stress on Dooban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Well yeah the doo if emphasised but it's more of an uhn than a ahn some of my mates used to spell it duben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Is this the sort of digging and research you're talking about, Jon? http://www.digitalvertigo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=31711 I don't see the problem with what he's asking at all. Asking for a couple of tracks to sample "d00b" and "bun" from is hardly the equivalent of ripping off another DJ's track listing for a mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions by the way, deffo give me something to crack on with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doppelkorn Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Yeah d00b that's what I thought so "dooban" rhymes with "Reuben" (the given name), in which case you need a "b*n" with a schwa in place of the vowel, not a "u" or an "a". I.e. the same vowel that's the first vowel in "about" or "consider" or the second vowel "suffocate". It's the most common vowel in English. You could use the "ben" from The Shamen's "Ebeneezer Goode". You're WELCOME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 There's many instances of people getting help from other people with their productions etc. Take that LL Cool J mini doc that someone posted, where his mate found him the sample and gave it to him to play around with. Asking for help with productions or scratch techniques etc is technical help though, which I said in my previous post is all good and I really really support as it's helping people turn their ideas into reality. In those cases you'll learn from the advice and make something new out of it, be it new elements in a track you're producing or patterns unique to your style of cutting based on the technique you've just learned combined with the scratches you can already do. I gave some technical advice on how to find samples for your name too (looking for syllables from any audio source and cutting and pasting). However, you're not asking for technical help, you're asking for samples, i.e. selections from other DJs, even if they're going to be used for a few seconds. My point is that the predominant thing that defines a DJ is their selection, and to me that includes everything from songs they select to samples they include and asking someone to do that for them, even in small instances, shows that it's not truly their selection. Being given a sample by a friend to use in a mix or a show, e.g. they may have found a song that really suits their style or a certain sample that reflects a theme of the mix they're making, is different from asking people to help out though. My comparison with biting lesser known tunes from a setlist might be a bit strong, but in both instances the DJ in question would be presenting other people's digging as their own, no? I know I can't convince everyone to feel the same way, but that's how I stand on it and I try to stick by it. @ Steve, fair point, though it's not as direct as this thread. I was asking for an alternative medium to help find samples rather than asking for people to do it for me. I'd argue that request sits on the border between technical help and digging help. I'll also point out that last yeae I posted a thread asking for blues suggestions for a last minute gig I'd received that day to cover a friend. If I had the time I'd have spent more time researching myself, but only had 2 or 3 hours to get some tunes together. They're tunes I've never played out again as it was just a one off, but I can accept it as being hypocritical for me asking still. @Doob, I'm not having a personal attack on you as a person, I think you've just caught me on a DJ ranting day. Here's a sample: Also, on the topic of asking for help with digging, I'd say if you already know a song and can describe it, asking for an ID isn't bad practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doppelkorn Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Yeah but Jon where do you stand on people making a thread saying "let's share x genre of music" with the intention of exploring new tracks in that genre and than taking tunes other people have posted and putting them in sets? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I see what you're saying mate, eventually a line has to be drawn. I'd say sharing threads are fair game if everyone reading contributes. You know on a DJ based forum quite a large proportion of the other people interested in that thread will be downloading those tracks and playing them out, so I'd feel that I'd have to go a step further and use the tracks in the thread as stepping stones to discover more stuff. Playing a set with songs available to the public that you're confident no one else is playing AND a crowd will enjoy is a pretty rare occurrence, but I think it's something to constantly endeavor to achieve, even if it's not really possible. A line has to be drawn with regards to unknown stuff too. Good music is good music, no matter how popular a song is, so playing a 100% crate digger mix isn't always go to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 @ Steve, fair point, though it's not as direct as this thread. Using a lyrics search engine isn't that different to this. How many of your mixtapes have scratch solos in them where you're cutting up generic battle record fodder? Samples selected by other DJs and conveniently laid out for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wax On Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 It's not a big deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 @ Steve, fair point, though it's not as direct as this thread. Using a lyrics search engine isn't that different to this. How many of your mixtapes have scratch solos in them where you're cutting up generic battle record fodder? Samples selected by other DJs and conveniently laid out for you? True, though on the whole I tend to use a small set of samples that are established scratch standards like ahhs and freshs that are embedded in scratching culture but can name a few times in mixes or routines where I've lifted a few sounds from different battle breaks. I see your point, maybe we really shouldn't use samples off battle records either but we do out of convenience? Though the main reason battle records were being made was to have sentences of samples from different records together so you could use multiple samples in succession when you were performing a routine, in the modern dvs age where we can make our own sentences I see your point. Maybe that's something I need to work on too. It's not a big deal Apologies for derailing the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I guess it's something I'm quite OCD about but I know not everyone else, so I should have just kept quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 I guess it's something I'm quite OCD about but I know not everyone else, so I should have just kept quiet. Yeah Jon! Shhhh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 You need to call Vekked out for doing this man. "do I have to tell you that you're wack time and time again""here's a brief example of a complicated cut""give me your 12s, take your mixer, shred it piece by piece, cos your DJ days are over, your career will cease""if you wanna come and battle bring a body bag" From this day forth, he can no longer use these samples! I know a bunch of samples from old school/golden age hip-hop that could be used for wordplay/disses in battle routines, so are you saying if I posted some up, you could never use them? But if they were on DJ BigDick's latest battle record, they're fair game? I think there's a line you don't cross, but setting that line at "getting no help from another person ever unless it's about something technical!" is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 You need to call Vekked out for doing this man. "do I have to tell you that you're wack time and time again""here's a brief example of a complicated cut""give me your 12s, take your mixer, shred it piece by piece, cos your DJ days are over, your career will cease""if you wanna come and battle bring a body bag" From this day forth, he can no longer use these samples! I know a bunch of samples from old school/golden age hip-hop that could be used for wordplay/disses in battle routines, so are you saying if I posted some up, you could never use them? But if they were on DJ BigDick's latest battle record, they're fair game? I think there's a line you don't cross, but setting that line at "getting no help from another person ever unless it's about something technical!" is silly. I think it'd depend on the context. If you posted them up as a list of samples you think would work in a battle and I felt that one really hit the nail on the head of something I was trying to express I'd directly pm you about it and ask if it was ok to borrow the idea. I'd credit you too if it was an online thing, or make a point of mentioning you as a thank you if I won or something like that. If they were on the latest battle record, I'd feel obliged to dig for something different or to try and flip it in a different way to catch the listener out. However, like you said there have been instances where I've taken the odd phrase from battle records, and I need to dedicate more time to sorting that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekked Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 You need to call Vekked out for doing this man. "do I have to tell you that you're wack time and time again" "here's a brief example of a complicated cut"hey! I googled the lyrics to find the bizzie boys track all by myself Fwiw I think you should try to use stuff you think sounds good or you like a lot, and that the biggest problem behind using played out samples is using it for the wrong reason... if you actually like the sample a lot and think it fits what you're doing well, then use it. Obviously most of the time people just use it because it's easy. All things equal a sample that's more unique is better than a sample that's less unique if they both sound the same. BUT using a sample just because it's unique and avoiding anything that has been touched is a similar problem... you're letting things outside of the sound and the music dictate your creative process. I don't think that's great either. A balance between both is ideal, probably weighted towards finding stuff that hasn't been touched but not limiting yourself exclusively to that. There's also a lot to be said about the context and method. If you're using samples that have been used before but you're flipping them better than anyone else, or at least in a really good/original way, maybe it's "better" (hard to qualify better in art, but...) than using an original sample but not flipping it at all. *wrote really quickly so hopefully makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 hey! I googled the lyrics to find the bizzie boys track all by myself Yeah, sure you did! http://www.digitalvertigo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=32548&p=328265 You definitely didn't read the lyrics from this post, yeah?: - http://www.digitalvertigo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=29789&p=327902 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 i think its totally fine in this context to be honest. we're a small community of mates on here and we know each other well so it makes sense to help each other out. and isnt music meant for sharing anyway? i like showing my tracklists off, and if someone bites me, then whatever, i know i played it first and no doubt someone played it before me, so yeh. in the scale of things it not really important, its more how you use it etc. (admittedly some djs are arseholes and may well just rip other djs off all the time, but in that case other djs will be aware of said nob end) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 For me, half the fun of being a DJ is collecting music and the other half is sharing it. Although that sharing usually just means playing it to others, I think it's cool to help each other out. Large Professor once bought a Tom Scott record, used a little snippet of it on one of his own beats (It's a Boy - Large Prof rmx), then he gave the same record to his friend Pete Rock, cos he thought he'd do something good with it... without a bit of friendly sharing, there'd be no T.R.O.Y. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wax On Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I thought the story was that Pete Rock faked an asthma attack to somehow nick the record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I thought the story was that Pete Rock faked an asthma attack to somehow nick the record?I think that's just urban myth... I read a pretty decent Large Prof interview a couple of years back and that's how he told it, I think there's a more recent Pete Rock interview on YouTube where he says much the same thing. Either way, the most important thing here is setting a good example for Doob - let's not introduce a drug addict to the concepts of fraud and theft . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wax On Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Hahaha good point - ignore me d00b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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