Yoshi Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 At 4:50 it looks like you're going I, M, I, M (a twiddle basically) instead of I, I, M, M (I = index, M = middle), but it's hard to tell. I'll watch the whole vid tomorrow. Trust me, I didn't use the middle finger even once. It's all index. I can even do the same with the middle finger tucked into my hand, if you really want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekked Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Fuitas aren't a sound, you can do multiple scratches with fuitas, it's a fader technique, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Right, there is no "fuita sound" cos it's just a way of doing fast 2-clicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Fuitas aren't a sound, you can do multiple scratches with fuitas, it's a fader technique, nothing more. Okay, if the name is for the technique of alternating between index and middle fingers, then that's the fuita. I have no problem with that. So I guess people employ the fuita technique for 2 click scratches, like the orbit or the delayed? And the point is that it's meant to get your scratches faster? Well, I've just tried doing it as described, but I think it's easier training to get your pinches faster than doing that. You can go just as fast as Rafik without using the middle finger. Plus, it'd just make it more complicated, for example, when you're switching from fuitas to normal 2 clicks. I just don't see the point in alternating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 When you say "something happens without you knowing" you are clicking twice, that's all. You're definitely over complicating things - at 3.40 you do the motion, and that's all that's happening; you're clicking twice. When you get very fast your hands condense movements to the bare essentials, and what you're experiencing is how you've let yourself learn subconsciously past a certain point and thus you can't really explain how you know what you know/do what you do anymore. Your bit at the end about the difference between spasmodic clicking and conscious clicking doesn't quite make sense either, as throughout the video you're sort of advocating a 'magic' non symmetrical clicking motion. I'm not having a go because I think your videos are good, but I think you're a bit off point in this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekked Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Fuitas aren't a sound, you can do multiple scratches with fuitas, it's a fader technique, nothing more. Okay, if the name is for the technique of alternating between index and middle fingers, then that's the fuita. I have no problem with that. So I guess people employ the fuita technique for 2 click scratches, like the orbit or the delayed? And the point is that it's meant to get your scratches faster? Well, I've just tried doing it as described, but I think it's easier training to get your pinches faster than doing that. You can go just as fast as Rafik without using the middle finger. Plus, it'd just make it more complicated, for example, when you're switching from fuitas to normal 2 clicks. I just don't see the point in alternating. First part is correct, and I agree, I don't think it's that beneficial since the guy with the fastest 2 clicks isn't even using that technique for his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 When you say "something happens without you knowing" you are clicking twice, that's all. You're definitely over complicating things - at 3.40 you do the motion, and that's all that's happening; you're clicking twice. When you get very fast your hands condense movements to the bare essentials, and what you're experiencing is how you've let yourself learn subconsciously past a certain point and thus you can't really explain how you know what you know/do what you do anymore. Your bit at the end about the difference between spasmodic clicking and conscious clicking doesn't quite make sense either, as throughout the video you're sort of advocating a 'magic' non symmetrical clicking motion. I'm not having a go because I think your videos are good, but I think you're a bit off point in this one. If you're talking about what your fingers are ACTUALLY doing in both cases, then they're both doing the same thing. It's just that you're thinking differently when you're doing them. In the pinching method, you're thinking of pinching twice. The transformer method, you're thinking in three movements -- close, transform, open. In the end, they're the same, but if you've learned 2 clicks just as "pinching twice", then it does make it harder for your to articulate the three sounds of the 2 click. I'm only saying this because many skratchers I've met can do the 2 click fast, but struggle to do them slowly, because they're only thinking in "pinch twice" terms, not a three-part movement. And when I showed them the three-part version, they eventually got out of this habit. Like, they have a problem slowing 2 click techniques down, like what D does in 0:23: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1qNc-WwdIc In pinching, the two "clicks" are very close together, because it's all done in one pinch. And since when you're doing 2 click slowly, you've gotta separate out those two clicks to fit the tempo, it becomes harder to do the 2 click with the pinching method at such slow speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 In pinching, the two "clicks" are very close together, because it's all done in one pinch. No, one 'pinch' is one click, the other one doesn't magically appear! People who exhibit the problem you describe tend to have these two issues with their technique in my experience: 1) they learned how to get multiple sounds by controlling a muscle spasm to the point that they can reliably get two clicks 2) they think of the clicks as a static concept, and haven't sat back and perceived that a click isn't a movement, it's an insertion of silence. Because of the combination of these issues, they can't tempo match their techniques. It's exactly the same with crabs and how you hear people bash out four totally rhythmless clicks over a beat, because they're not clicking with four fingers sequentially so much as fanning their hand over their thumb in one clumsy macro movement. Anyway, OT. I dabble in twiddle techniques a fair bit, and the main advantage I find/can see to fuitas is that they're a way round fatigue. You're halving the work that needs to be done by your fingers and thus giving the muscles time to oxygenate and avoid spasm and lactic acid buildup. You can also get a nice effect with the natural timing differences between clicking with the same finger twice and alternating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekked Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Getting confused here. I get your sentiment Chris but you can't really do pinched 1 clicks or pinch twice for 1 two click flare if that's what you're getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I don't get it is it because I scratch hamster? When I pinch my index (or middle) finger goes to meet my thumb and they end up grabbing the fader, and depending on whether it's a transform or a flare one 'wins' the direction the fader goes. That gets me one click, and the same thing happens again for following clicks. My wrist movement - as well as the pincer motion of my whole hand - becomes less telegraphed the faster I need to make those clicks, out of necessity, but it's essentially the same movement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekked Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I don't get it is it because I scratch hamster? When I pinch my index (or middle) finger goes to meet my thumb and they end up grabbing the fader, and depending on whether it's a transform or a flare one 'wins' the direction the fader goes. That gets me one click, and the same thing happens again for following clicks. My wrist movement - as well as the pincer motion of my whole hand - becomes less telegraphed the faster I need to make those clicks, out of necessity, but it's essentially the same movement... I scratch hamster too. I think what you're describing is just using wrist style fader technique. Even if you're making a pincer motion to do 1-clicks, which seems kind of weird, it's not really what pinching is. Pinching is a distinct technique of using the momentum of your hand to achieve more clicks, I guess kind of similar to a small uzi on the fader or something in that it's not as controlled as doing every click consciously. Pinching isn't something you're doing for every technique, like you wouldn't pinch chirps/1 clicks/stabs generally. Is that any clearer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 It's basically just fast double clicks? The way i always got quick double clicks (And never learned this from a site/video/DVD or had some weird other name for them)Was 1 snap shut fader motion and the 2nd click came from my wrist.. i know it looks like a slow single flare but i get a double it's like an illusion only less impressive and no one gives a fuck ^ this is why i never tried to explain scratching.. it always looks like a pile of jibberish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I go through phases of elevating my hand and actually making a pronounced pincer motion and being a bit more lazy with it and resting my other fingers at the end of the fader and making more of a tapping motion with my index/middle finger. I guess you can see it in the video I posted earlier today. So Ryan is also describing pinching, then? Would it be somewhat accurate to say that you achieve the motion with a 'ripple' of sorts, from your wrist to your finger? I've always been really keen to be in total control of all my clicks, which is partially why I suck, I guess - not enough intuitive 'sound making', and a lot more strictness. I also think I do my clicking from my knuckle much more than most people. Bleh, who knows. Yoshi, I'm obviously in no position to tell you what's what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekked Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I go through phases of elevating my hand and actually making a pronounced pincer motion and being a bit more lazy with it and resting my other fingers at the end of the fader and making more of a tapping motion with my index/middle finger. I guess you can see it in the video I posted earlier today. So Ryan is also describing pinching, then? Would it be somewhat accurate to say that you achieve the motion with a 'ripple' of sorts, from your wrist to your finger? I've always been really keen to be in total control of all my clicks, which is partially why I suck, I guess - not enough intuitive 'sound making', and a lot more strictness. I also think I do my clicking from my knuckle much more than most people. Bleh, who knows. Yoshi, I'm obviously in no position to tell you what's what. I think Ryan's describing wrist style, since he specifically says the 2nd click comes from his wrist. Also his stuff sounds very wristy. Pinchers can be seen here right at the beginning and throughout: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IMnYQAVq1U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Oh fuck knows. I think I just scratch wrong. My hands are nothing like that animated with any of my scratches. That said, take away the telegraphing that starts at his elbow and go right down to his hand and he clicks with his fingers with the same pincer movement that I do. His forward/back movement from his elbow looks like it contributes to the timing of what looks like and sounds like twiddles for the extra clicks though, but rather than clicking with each finger he's sliding the fader past his fingers which leads to the timing of the clicks. So this - although not necessarily the twiddle part - is the essence of pinch technique? This is making my head hurt, I need to go to sleep tonight. I can't wait to get my decks set back up now, I need to do a video and get you to tell me whether I'm scratching or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekked Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Oh fuck knows. I think I just scratch wrong. My hands are nothing like that animated with any of my scratches. Your hands shouldn't look like that IMO, you should have as little movement as possible in order to be most efficient. I think pinching is generally a bad habit but some people can do it well, depends on your style I suppose, but I think for most people it's best to do everything controlled/have a similar technique for all clicks no matter what scratch you're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I like that there has been an increase of turntablism posts. Altho I am a little disappointed this isn't a post about making frittatas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest broke Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Fruitas do involve alternating your fingers, it's a technique not a sound, they're pointless, where's my omelette, end of thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 sig worthy. lol PS. My breakfast skills are second to none. That's basically why women flock to me. It's the morning after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericuk Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I just thought I'd jump on the thread when it's too late to contribute anything worth listening too. I can pinch and do the other way and do it all on both hands because I'm a fly mo fo nahmeen. years ago I also had some weird hand/wrist movement which created many clicks. I named them snake orbits. they're probably just poorly controlled 3 click flares. Real talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 So what's a good way to learn to pinch. I can only do one click flares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 So what's a good way to learn to pinch. I can only do one click flares. Is my video helpful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Chris, it's a bit different no hamster. When I bust 2 clicks on hamster, it's more wrist than fingers. I certainly can't go as fast as when I'm on regular (although Tayone can do it somehow!). Just compare Q and D. Q has to use his wrist power (he really moves his hand a lot), whereas D or, say, Miyajima can do really fast 2 clicks with just their fingers (pinching). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solemn Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 why don't we just ask the ruck? he seems to be a nice and likeable chap and probably eager to help us with this little issue (<- personal trademark) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 So what's a good way to learn to pinch. I can only do one click flares. Is my video helpful? They always are--the record hand technique one was one of the most helpful vids I've ever seen. I guess I missed the pinch one. Will check it out tonight. why don't we just ask the ruck? he seems to be a nice and likeable chap and probably eager to help us with this little issue (<- personal trademark) FLOL x2!Nows when I regret not having the old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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