Would DMC be better if custom records were banned?

[Steve]

Discuss.

[chile]

I recon there should be a minimum quantity of different records you have to use in a routine.. so like for a 6 min routine, you gotta use at least 2 different records. all le jad records should be banned now too, as they've been rinsed too much in routines

[Steve]

you gotta use at least 2 different records

Don't you have to do that anyway if you're using 2 turntables?

[chile]

i meant like 2 different doubles of records at least.. i recon it would be decent to regulate custom records too, for example only being allowed one double custom per routine

[x2k]

I don't see how it could be done to be honest unless they banned battle records too because otherwise you enter the arguement of whether a dj could use their own battle record or not, and even if they weren't allowed to then you still don't know whether one of the DJs using someone elses battle record actually had a sly hand in the making of it (conspiracy world). Personally I don't give a fuck, soon there will be no real records in the competitions at all in which case if you wanna see someone doing some clever tricks with real records you'd best pop down a local club and find some dj with skills rocking things properly with real records and real tunes. The DMC is what it is and I seriously doubt any of us will change that.

[Vet]

I said this last year and I'll say it again.

 

1 battle for records strictly dug for (i.e. no customs, just regular non-purpose records)

 

1 battle for custom records only (i.e. the producer style battle that DMC is quickly turning into anyway)

 

1 battle for serato (which is semi-redundant but I think the more seperate digital is from analog the better)

 

As good as precision was he was in no way on the same page as Rafik just because of the records Rafik used...anyone can 'sound' dope when all your transitions are planned out and customized.

 

p.s. this years' dmc was by far the more boring I have seen EVER. =(

[Sir Dongbot]

yes....

[Steve]

i meant like 2 different doubles of records at least.. i recon it would be decent to regulate custom records too, for example only being allowed one double custom per routine

I know what you meant, I was just being pedantic.

[chile]

i meant like 2 different doubles of records at least.. i recon it would be decent to regulate custom records too, for example only being allowed one double custom per routine

I know what you meant, I was just being a cunt.

 

np!

[rygon]

im not that bothered if it sounds good...to me dmc should become less about technical scrathcing and more about building the tune up like c2c. they sound melodic with some good scratching and above all a great structure to the set. Im sure theres more like that but im not that much into it at the mo.

 

then again thinking about it what is the benefit f custom records..they still have to be good scratchers and find the samples they want to put down..the only benefit i can think of is the time it takes to cue up the next part (unless they loop samples on the custom wax..then thats cheating)..so why should the djs be judged on how fast they can change pne vinyl for another

[Guest broke]

1 battle for custom records only (i.e. the producer style battle that DMC is quickly turning into anyway)

 

1 battle for serato (which is semi-redundant but I think the more seperate digital is from analog the better)

 

Do you really need to separate the two? It's pretty much the same thing.

[that guy from P.A.]

yes....

 

it would put people back in the crates imo...and maybe we'd here some new shit

[Vekked]

I don't think so. I don't think that it's custom records that are the problem, I think it's the DJs for the most part. The DJs because, rafik/netik didn't make the illest sets ever, they aren't unbeatable, but you couldn't really justify putting anyone else first, because no one else had better sets, regardless of whether they used customs or not. Sets like rafik and fly's this year, and netik/fred funk's last year leave me with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, but klever/craze/rocksteady dj's all used customs and killed it, and even more recently, look at tigerstyle, he rocks customs and makes wicked routines with a balance of technicality/musicality and they still flow. Even rafik's 04/05/06 routines I enjoyed more. It's a trend right now, and it's just going to take a DJ to come up with a killer routine without using customs, or using them tastefully, and it'll change. I don't think banning custom records would solve anything, cuz some of my favourite scratch routines were using customs (klever 2001, any custom tigerstyle scratch routine almost, lol), they just need to be used tastefully.

[Wax On]

word, its not what you've got, its how you use it...i think the problem is people aren't using customs that creatively, in a way its almost harder to put together a creative set with customs cos you effectively need to compose something and then break it down again so that it can be used in an interesting way...

[arkei]

To me it's mostly the fact that today with the internet and dvds, people tend to go the fast route. It's not that the older dmc-champs didn't have videos of the NMS or the DMCs, but the market wasen't overflowed with them as it is today. And since digging isen't as important as it was and with those custom pressed records and everybody using the same ish, it's quite logical, that compared to the past, nowadays dmcs events arent as interesting. And sooner or later, you have to be down with "this years hottest custom wax-Producer", in order to get the most efficient win-bringing chances to be the best dj on the planet. I'm exagerating, but you never know.

 

And this by no means a diss to ze Jad, cause he's nice producer.

[Jon]

I like it how it is at the moment with customs allowed. I'll post a full response and reasons why in a bit as I'm bout to go to college. watch this space.

[Vekked]

And sooner or later, you have to be down with "this years hottest custom wax-Producer", in order to get the most efficient win-bringing chances to be the best dj on the planet. I'm exagerating, but you never know.

 

word, dj's produced by le jad have won the showcase event, and came runner up (controversially) in supremacy both of the last 2 years, and this year the german team he produced came a close 2nd this year also... next year dj's produced by him could very well clean up if no one else comes with a style that's different yet just as hard

[Phology]

iv never really followed the DMCs

but the previous ones always impress...like back in 97

 

them were the days..

[Gizmo]

Phology - what's your AV from?

[Jon]

.

 

then again thinking about it what is the benefit f custom records..they still have to be good scratchers and find the samples they want to put down..the only benefit i can think of is the time it takes to cue up the next part (unless they loop samples on the custom wax..then thats cheating)..so why should the djs be judged on how fast they can change pne vinyl for another

 

A dj can showcase a lot more of their different abilities using customs: whereas a dj might traditionally do a scratch routine, change his/her records then do a beatjuggle routine, change again for a drumming set etc etc, using customs allows a dj to show off in all these areas within a potentially short distance of time and therefore impress the judges in lots of different areas rather than just one or two areas that traditional sets would focus on.

 

The aggressive nature of some of these routines keeps the sets upbeat and this pace allows the dj to showcase their techniques much faster. The sound of the current routines might not be to everyone's taste but the approach can be beneficial in impressing the judges.

 

 

peace

rusty

 

(sorry if anyone read my longer post on the dmc forums and just wasted a minute reading part of it again lol!)

[Phology]

Phology - what's your AV from?

 

must be either Thunderbirds or Captain Scarlet, im not sure..

 

it just makes me laugh when i see it

[Vekked]

.

 

then again thinking about it what is the benefit f custom records..they still have to be good scratchers and find the samples they want to put down..the only benefit i can think of is the time it takes to cue up the next part (unless they loop samples on the custom wax..then thats cheating)..so why should the djs be judged on how fast they can change pne vinyl for another

 

A dj can showcase a lot more of their different abilities using customs: whereas a dj might traditionally do a scratch routine, change his/her records then do a beatjuggle routine, change again for a drumming set etc etc, using customs allows a dj to show off in all these areas within a potentially short distance of time and therefore impress the judges in lots of different areas rather than just one or two areas that traditional sets would focus on.

 

The aggressive nature of some of these routines keeps the sets upbeat and this pace allows the dj to showcase their techniques much faster. The sound of the current routines might not be to everyone's taste but the approach can be beneficial in impressing the judges.

 

 

peace

rusty

 

(sorry if anyone read my longer post on the dmc forums and just wasted a minute reading part of it again lol!)

 

I think in theory this make sense, but in reality it doesn't actually happen like this. as far as the dj showing a lot more of their different abilities using customs, it makes sense that a dj would be able to fit in more skills, but the dj's using them aren't bringing 6 minutes worth of different skills to the table, they're doing a whole bunch of the same techniques with different sounds that make it sound like they're creating the build ups/breakdowns/feel of the routine with them, when they're actually not. they're using customs to create the image of a well composed routine, but all of the composition is on the records already as opposed being created with the records. I don't think anyone can honestly say that the best dmc sets of all time were done with all customs, but if they were actually so much more efficient, then logically they should be better than sets without customs, but they aren't. IMO traditional sets actually covered more areas than the newer custom ones are, because the newer custom sets completely skip transitions/composition, because all of it's pressed on the vinyl already.

 

also, from a scratching/drumming perspective these sets are technical and tight, but netik and rafik's juggling the last 2 years was not that impressive, especially rafik this year. he barely juggled, and when he did, it was fairly simple/repetitive, but it sounded well composed because the melody on the record was changing/building. people were doing harder juggles circa a decade ago, not even exaggerating, check total eclipse, dummy, roli rho. I know that rafik and netik both can juggle, rafik's high speed rocket juggle is illl, and netik's ms. jade is a classic, but even their old juggles exhibited way better skills than their ones from last year/this year.

 

I don't really believe that the aggressive nature of the routines allows them to show their techniques much faster either, if you bpm them, they're sitting around 90ish bpm, aka hip-hop tempo. or, if they're on d&b it's probably around 180, but they're cutting the same speed as they would on 90 bpm, it just seems faster. so really, they're going just as fast, and getting through just as many techniques as they would be normally, but over beats that sound more hectic.

 

basically, the routines are creating the illusion that they're better when they're not. I find them a lot less varied than older routines. with craze/kentaro/dopey/plus one, each part of the set showcased different techniques/skills for the most part, one part might be technical, another musical/funky, all having a different purpose. but now it seems that almost all of the cutting is meant to be technical, and sure that's alright, but I don't think that you need 5 minutes of technical cuts in a 6 minute routine in order to prove that you're worth of maximum points in that category, you can probably get away with 1-2 minutes and fulfill the same purpose, anymore is just over kill.

 

so after all of that, my point is just that although customs COULD enable better/more efficient routines, they aren't, so far. would vajra's 2004 routine have been better if all of his material was on the same records so he didn't have to figure out transitions from one part to the next? and did rafik or netik's routines showcase more techniques in different areas?

 

[Steve]

^^Good post dood.

[Jon]

.

 

then again thinking about it what is the benefit f custom records..they still have to be good scratchers and find the samples they want to put down..the only benefit i can think of is the time it takes to cue up the next part (unless they loop samples on the custom wax..then thats cheating)..so why should the djs be judged on how fast they can change pne vinyl for another

 

A dj can showcase a lot more of their different abilities using customs: whereas a dj might traditionally do a scratch routine, change his/her records then do a beatjuggle routine, change again for a drumming set etc etc, using customs allows a dj to show off in all these areas within a potentially short distance of time and therefore impress the judges in lots of different areas rather than just one or two areas that traditional sets would focus on.

 

The aggressive nature of some of these routines keeps the sets upbeat and this pace allows the dj to showcase their techniques much faster. The sound of the current routines might not be to everyone's taste but the approach can be beneficial in impressing the judges.

 

 

peace

rusty

 

(sorry if anyone read my longer post on the dmc forums and just wasted a minute reading part of it again lol!)

 

I think in theory this make sense, but in reality it doesn't actually happen like this. as far as the dj showing a lot more of their different abilities using customs, it makes sense that a dj would be able to fit in more skills, but the dj's using them aren't bringing 6 minutes worth of different skills to the table, they're doing a whole bunch of the same techniques with different sounds that make it sound like they're creating the build ups/breakdowns/feel of the routine with them, when they're actually not. they're using customs to create the image of a well composed routine, but all of the composition is on the records already as opposed being created with the records. I don't think anyone can honestly say that the best dmc sets of all time were done with all customs, but if they were actually so much more efficient, then logically they should be better than sets without customs, but they aren't. IMO traditional sets actually covered more areas than the newer custom ones are, because the newer custom sets completely skip transitions/composition, because all of it's pressed on the vinyl already.

 

also, from a scratching/drumming perspective these sets are technical and tight, but netik and rafik's juggling the last 2 years was not that impressive, especially rafik this year. he barely juggled, and when he did, it was fairly simple/repetitive, but it sounded well composed because the melody on the record was changing/building. people were doing harder juggles circa a decade ago, not even exaggerating, check total eclipse, dummy, roli rho. I know that rafik and netik both can juggle, rafik's high speed rocket juggle is illl, and netik's ms. jade is a classic, but even their old juggles exhibited way better skills than their ones from last year/this year.

 

I don't really believe that the aggressive nature of the routines allows them to show their techniques much faster either, if you bpm them, they're sitting around 90ish bpm, aka hip-hop tempo. or, if they're on d&b it's probably around 180, but they're cutting the same speed as they would on 90 bpm, it just seems faster. so really, they're going just as fast, and getting through just as many techniques as they would be normally, but over beats that sound more hectic.

 

basically, the routines are creating the illusion that they're better when they're not. I find them a lot less varied than older routines. with craze/kentaro/dopey/plus one, each part of the set showcased different techniques/skills for the most part, one part might be technical, another musical/funky, all having a different purpose. but now it seems that almost all of the cutting is meant to be technical, and sure that's alright, but I don't think that you need 5 minutes of technical cuts in a 6 minute routine in order to prove that you're worth of maximum points in that category, you can probably get away with 1-2 minutes and fulfill the same purpose, anymore is just over kill.

 

so after all of that, my point is just that although customs COULD enable better/more efficient routines, they aren't, so far. would vajra's 2004 routine have been better if all of his material was on the same records so he didn't have to figure out transitions from one part to the next? and did rafik or netik's routines showcase more techniques in different areas?

 

 

i agree with you on pretty much all your points. especially with your 'the routines are creating the illusion that they're better when they're not' assertion- that the melodies on the records are providing a lot of the intensity/aggression of the routines rather than the djs input. The decline in juggling i've noticed too (although as far as i can remember precision did some dope juggles this year) due to the possibility of more drumming and left and right handed cutting due to customs allowing you to swap the beat and sample over without changing the records/needle position etc etc. some of netiks juggles i've noticed are more scratching with either hand rather than traditional juggling. i think the reason this particular technique has become less apparent in routines is because it can hinder the pace of a routine (not in every case i have to assert as there are plenty of high paced juggles out there), especially fast paced aggressive sets that rely on the tempo of the set remaining high (or apparently high in the cases you mention of reletively standard bpm ranges appearing to be faster due to the intensity of the melody programming). I think the technical juggling will return in due time when people have experimented a bit more with producing routines.

[Vekked]

.

 

then again thinking about it what is the benefit f custom records..they still have to be good scratchers and find the samples they want to put down..the only benefit i can think of is the time it takes to cue up the next part (unless they loop samples on the custom wax..then thats cheating)..so why should the djs be judged on how fast they can change pne vinyl for another

 

A dj can showcase a lot more of their different abilities using customs: whereas a dj might traditionally do a scratch routine, change his/her records then do a beatjuggle routine, change again for a drumming set etc etc, using customs allows a dj to show off in all these areas within a potentially short distance of time and therefore impress the judges in lots of different areas rather than just one or two areas that traditional sets would focus on.

 

The aggressive nature of some of these routines keeps the sets upbeat and this pace allows the dj to showcase their techniques much faster. The sound of the current routines might not be to everyone's taste but the approach can be beneficial in impressing the judges.

 

 

peace

rusty

 

(sorry if anyone read my longer post on the dmc forums and just wasted a minute reading part of it again lol!)

 

I think in theory this make sense, but in reality it doesn't actually happen like this. as far as the dj showing a lot more of their different abilities using customs, it makes sense that a dj would be able to fit in more skills, but the dj's using them aren't bringing 6 minutes worth of different skills to the table, they're doing a whole bunch of the same techniques with different sounds that make it sound like they're creating the build ups/breakdowns/feel of the routine with them, when they're actually not. they're using customs to create the image of a well composed routine, but all of the composition is on the records already as opposed being created with the records. I don't think anyone can honestly say that the best dmc sets of all time were done with all customs, but if they were actually so much more efficient, then logically they should be better than sets without customs, but they aren't. IMO traditional sets actually covered more areas than the newer custom ones are, because the newer custom sets completely skip transitions/composition, because all of it's pressed on the vinyl already.

 

also, from a scratching/drumming perspective these sets are technical and tight, but netik and rafik's juggling the last 2 years was not that impressive, especially rafik this year. he barely juggled, and when he did, it was fairly simple/repetitive, but it sounded well composed because the melody on the record was changing/building. people were doing harder juggles circa a decade ago, not even exaggerating, check total eclipse, dummy, roli rho. I know that rafik and netik both can juggle, rafik's high speed rocket juggle is illl, and netik's ms. jade is a classic, but even their old juggles exhibited way better skills than their ones from last year/this year.

 

I don't really believe that the aggressive nature of the routines allows them to show their techniques much faster either, if you bpm them, they're sitting around 90ish bpm, aka hip-hop tempo. or, if they're on d&b it's probably around 180, but they're cutting the same speed as they would on 90 bpm, it just seems faster. so really, they're going just as fast, and getting through just as many techniques as they would be normally, but over beats that sound more hectic.

 

basically, the routines are creating the illusion that they're better when they're not. I find them a lot less varied than older routines. with craze/kentaro/dopey/plus one, each part of the set showcased different techniques/skills for the most part, one part might be technical, another musical/funky, all having a different purpose. but now it seems that almost all of the cutting is meant to be technical, and sure that's alright, but I don't think that you need 5 minutes of technical cuts in a 6 minute routine in order to prove that you're worth of maximum points in that category, you can probably get away with 1-2 minutes and fulfill the same purpose, anymore is just over kill.

 

so after all of that, my point is just that although customs COULD enable better/more efficient routines, they aren't, so far. would vajra's 2004 routine have been better if all of his material was on the same records so he didn't have to figure out transitions from one part to the next? and did rafik or netik's routines showcase more techniques in different areas?

 

 

i agree with you on pretty much all your points. especially with your 'the routines are creating the illusion that they're better when they're not' assertion- that the melodies on the records are providing a lot of the intensity/aggression of the routines rather than the djs input. The decline in juggling i've noticed too (although as far as i can remember precision did some dope juggles this year) due to the possibility of more drumming and left and right handed cutting due to customs allowing you to swap the beat and sample over without changing the records/needle position etc etc. some of netiks juggles i've noticed are more scratching with either hand rather than traditional juggling. i think the reason this particular technique has become less apparent in routines is because it can hinder the pace of a routine (not in every case i have to assert as there are plenty of high paced juggles out there), especially fast paced aggressive sets that rely on the tempo of the set remaining high (or apparently high in the cases you mention of reletively standard bpm ranges appearing to be faster due to the intensity of the melody programming). I think the technical juggling will return in due time when people have experimented a bit more with producing routines.

 

word, I think that you're right, juggling has become less a part of the last couple years because a lot of the skill in juggling is creating a different beat/tempo with another beat when a lot of the trend now is to keep the same general tempo for most of the routine to create a sense of unity and flow in it, and a botched juggle can easily ruin the flow of a routine overall, so only doing simple or scratch heavy juggles that stay at the same tempo saves this problem, but it doesn't necessarily make it a better routine.

 

I think the main problem with the all custom routines might be in their lack of variation. the sounds they use vary within one basic style, and the music has a certain dynamic as far as melody, but I think the beauty of some of the old routines is that they use all different genres/tempos of music, and still manage to make it flow and give the routine a sense of unity throughout. it takes a lot more skill/creativity to do that, than to make a routine flow that was produced to do so. and I agree, I think technical juggling will return, because really, who's going to step up and improve on what rafik and netik have done with cutting/drumming the last couple of years, I think that the main area for improvement is in juggling, so people are going to start working on that in order to try to progress.

 

also, faster isn't necessarily better, but that's the general conception in these routines. even from a pure technical standpoint, I think that cuts are more difficult/technical sometimes if they're not all double-timed with flares thrown over every record movement. it sounds faster/more efficient etc would logically make a better routine, but I think when you really think about it and compare these routines to some past routines aspect for aspect, it doesn't actually work out that way.