djxander Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 A friend of mine and I had a discussion about whether modern music has the artistic integrity of classical music. In that discussion we discussed one particularly interesting idea -- As a precursor for this discussion - allow me to define a term Negative art= art that is entirely composed of negative emotions like hatred, horror, feer, pain, violence etc. A lot of goth rock/metal would classify under this category, a lot of emo, necro, the Rubber Johny vid.,etc. We were talking about this idea - why do people make it and listen to it? I'm not talking about listening to it on a superficial level as background music, but really listening to it - where you know all the words etc. It would seem that a person in a good mood would not want to listen to such "negative music" and MORESO a person in a good mood would not Make such music. It is understandable that if someone is in a bad mood they may want to listen to something they can relate to. However, there are artists who CONSISTENTLY make negative music. I was particularly baffled when some one posted in the rubber johny thread that Chris Cunningham has nightmares and tries to convey them through his work. As an artsy type, its cool to be like "man this shit is dark," but as a human you have to ask yourself "Why the fuck would Chris Cunningham want to imortalize the nightmares he has and make other people feel the same terror"? Another example, Vinni Paz of JMT - he is ALWAYS angry. Now assuming that art is a reflection of the artist, Vinni Paz may be the only CONSISTENTLY angry person I have ever heard of. Also, my friend brought up a good point - there are all these depressed teenagers that listen to emo now - but emo IS depressed teenager music and that just proliferates the negative feelings in the artist and the listeners. I don't really understand. I try to get the most positivity from life so maybe I just can't relate. Do people really enjoy have negative feelings and holding onto them as well as passing them onto others? Are all these artists like Necro and Chris Cunningham just straight up fronting while they try to sell a different gimmick that no one else has sold yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mista_Ed Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 i agree dood, i agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaterNob Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Since you're so positive why don't you take something positive from negative music like the fact that a comparison to negative music makes positive music even more positive or something....... I disagree btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mista_Ed Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxander Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 Since you're so positive why don't you take something positive from negative music like the fact that a comparison to negative music makes positive music even more positive or something.......<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hater, thats a given, but there's nothing inherently positive about "negative music" for the people that listen to exclusively. Please elaborate on why you disagree. I'm not dissing anyone, I just don't understand the psychological phenomenon that drives people to make this kind of stuff... especially when thats the only thing they make/listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaterNob Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 A lot of people that write music do so to potray emotion through art. Not everybody in this world is happy. Simple. ................Also, some situtaions require for sombre music, a funeral would be a good example. ........and then you get the goths that seem to crave attention to their depression. Like "look at me I'm sooo unhappy!! woooooo!" shit. I appreciatte where you're coming from completely but you've gotta look at things on the flipside really. Like I could post a topic asking about people that only make the Jigga, s'all gravy. pz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxander Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 I just don't understand the personality of the "Goth" or the "Emo" kid. It seems that they get happiness or at least pleasure from having even more negative emotions than before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rygon Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 its just their angst and confusion etc if the world we live in...it helps them know that they arent the only ppl who not only feel like they do but also share there same feeling and ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$a!n+ Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 A friend of mine and I had a discussion about whether modern music has the artistic integrity of classical music. In that discussion we discussed one particularly interesting idea -- As a precursor for this discussion - allow me to define a term Negative art= art that is entirely composed of negative emotions like hatred, horror, feer, pain, violence etc. A lot of goth rock/metal would classify under this category, a lot of emo, necro, the Rubber Johny vid.,etc. We were talking about this idea - why do people make it and listen to it? I'm not talking about listening to it on a superficial level as background music, but really listening to it - where you know all the words etc. It would seem that a person in a good mood would not want to listen to such "negative music" and MORESO a person in a good mood would not Make such music. It is understandable that if someone is in a bad mood they may want to listen to something they can relate to. However, there are artists who CONSISTENTLY make negative music. I was particularly baffled when some one posted in the rubber johny thread that Chris Cunningham has nightmares and tries to convey them through his work. As an artsy type, its cool to be like "man this shit is dark," but as a human you have to ask yourself "Why the fuck would Chris Cunningham want to imortalize the nightmares he has and make other people feel the same terror"? Another example, Vinni Paz of JMT - he is ALWAYS angry. Now assuming that art is a reflection of the artist, Vinni Paz may be the only CONSISTENTLY angry person I have ever heard of. Also, my friend brought up a good point - there are all these depressed teenagers that listen to emo now - but emo IS depressed teenager music and that just proliferates the negative feelings in the artist and the listeners. I don't really understand. I try to get the most positivity from life so maybe I just can't relate. Do people really enjoy have negative feelings and holding onto them as well as passing them onto others? Are all these artists like Necro and Chris Cunningham just straight up fronting while they try to sell a different gimmick that no one else has sold yet?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Its called getting things off your chest. Think about it, when something happens to someone really bad, the best way to get past it is to talk about it or to write it down. I know how it is first hand, I am more easily inspired by negitive things than positive things. When I see bunnies and flowers I am not inspired, If my friend fucks me over, or someone breaks my heart, or if I feel down or blue, creating music they conveys those feelings gets these things "off my chest." You can look at all this negative music as hurdles these people have crossed. I can look back at songs other people have made or songs i have made and realize that everybody goes through negative situations. These songs tell me "i have been in this negativy and I can make it out of it." NIN is a good example. Yes negative but very inspiring. Art to me is therepy. Art is your emotions manifested into semi tangible mediums. Art is a way for your to "confess." Art is a way to mentally clense yourself. Music is art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rygon Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 When I see bunnies and flowers I am not inspired, If my friend fucks me over, or someone breaks my heart, or if I feel down or blue, creating music they conveys those feelings gets these things "off my chest." so what do you feel if a bunnies beats you shitless and leaves you for dead in a field....where you get hayfever from all those pretty flowers next to you...im sure you could be pretty inspired after that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$a!n+ Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 When I see bunnies and flowers I am not inspired, If my friend fucks me over, or someone breaks my heart, or if I feel down or blue, creating music they conveys those feelings gets these things "off my chest." so what do you feel if a bunnies beats you shitless and leaves you for dead in a field....where you get hayfever from all those pretty flowers next to you...im sure you could be pretty inspired after that<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats negative music, and thats what the threads about. your going circles. Plus what makes you think i couldnt woop that bunnies. But I tell you what, hayfever is a bitch. Im going write a song about it...... its just their angst and confusion etc if the world we live in...it helps them know that they arent the only ppl who not only feel like they do but also share there same feeling and ideas<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with that^^^^^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vekked Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 i know what you're talking about xander, like, in the area i live in, is infested with emo's, it's basically the only thing anyone listens to, and it makes me so angry, because like... i know people who were my friends, that were cool, but then they start trying to fit in with the popular sort of crowd, which happens to be emo's at the moment, and now like... they'll over-react about things, and make things out to be way more extreme because of this music/social trend of negativity like, if your parents don't let you go to your friends house, that's not really a valid reason to say you're doing to commit suicide, but with all the music out there today (my chemical romance, the used, etc, etc) there's so much connotation of suicide and self-destructive type actions it's one thing to get something off your chest, but it really brings some people down, and it's one thing to express yourself, but there's no reason to do it negatively, you can easily talk about how you got hurt and stuff, but do it in a way that inspires people to get over it and move on with their life and BE HAPPY, rather than wallow in your own self pity and expect other people to sympathize for you i can't stand when people are all depressed all the time, or act like it, just to get attention, but that's how it is around where i live (i don't know if it's the same for yall or not), but it's just ridiculous, music should be used to PROMOTE LIFE, and INSPIRE CHANGE, not promote people to be depressed and think about killing themselves justify it all you want, but this negative music has a negative effect on lots of people, and it's not right sure you can express yourself, but when you have the gift to do that, and to relate to people and be heard, you should use it in a positive way, because it can change peoples lives, and if it does so in a negative way, than i'd say keep your expression to yourself, or find a different way to do it... i dunno, maybe i can't relate, because i can pretty safely say that i'm rarely 'depressed', i'm angry a lot, but the thing with anger, is that when i'm angry, i actually am inspired to do something about it, i never sit down and not act on my anger, i always change it, or change something, when i'm depressed i do nothing, nothing changes, it's a dead-end... i just think people who make negative music with negative effects on people are sort of selfish for doing that, when you have that power to influence people in such a way, do it in a positive way, to get people through tougher times, not keep them in those times pz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$a!n+ Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Happy songs make some people angry and depressed. Atleast this music makes you feel SOMETHING! I dont like emo but I love music with emotions. If I have to hear another happy go lucky pop song Im gonna kill something. Most happy songs are written by song writers for an artist. most negative songs are written by the artists that perform them. How you interpret a piece of art is up the each individual. maybe your freinds are shallow and "go with the herd" but emo and goth isnt the first or only negative music. Look at pain and angst in blues! But so much soul comes along with that. Sure Jon Denver could make a happy song, but he has no soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbay Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 art is what you make it. if you dont understand the dark stuff, i guess its because you havnt felt that connection, because you havnt had the same experiences etc. i have a lot of random nonsensical dreams and nightmares, so i like dark music every now and then. i even tried making a track last year sometime because i had to get shit off my chest, i'd been dreaming fucked up shit for about a month every night and id feel all disturbed when i wake up. -> don't sleep although i agree with the emo shit being gay when people complain about dumb things like not getting pocket money, and then people jump on the bandwagon to fit in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxander Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 (edited) Let me stipulate a difference - there is a difference between music that conveys a negative emotion and "negative music"... Take Wyclef Jean or Jill Scott - they have songs that depict true hurt and disatisfaction etc., but in their music you can tell they are trying to grow past it. They ALSO have songs that show an appreciation for life and an understanding of life's beauty. But whats the deal with Necro or Vinni Paz of Jedi Mind Tricks? I think its a front personally. Stop being angry for a minute, or talk about what you expect to come out of the anger. Portishead for instance is quite somber music, but it shows the difficulty of trying to OVERCOME the dingy, industrial, Bristol life - not "fuck bristol! fuck everyone! fuck the fuckers! and fuck the fuckers' mothers!" People can really relate to the somber mood in Portishead's music because it inspires a fuller appreciation of the possible spectrum of feelings, it does not suggest you to focus on the negative. In fact I would say that it is music INSPIRED by negative events in life, it is NOT however a direct manifestation of negativity (i.e. hatred, depression, violence, etc.) I guess there is a broader question of psychology at play - why do people set themselves up to actualize self-fulfilling prophecies of despair, depression, violence, anger, etc.? I think that is really what I don't understand. Why don't people WANT to be happy. When I say happy I don't meen really drunk happy, or Britney Spear/NSync happy. I meen why don't people sing about trying to find fulfillment and the difficulties thereof. Why do people focus on the negative and the therefore prolong it. All in all - I do think negative music has a negative impact. I think for many people it just begins to occupy too high a percentage of their sphere of influence (so to speak). I used to be a lot more intrigued by its novelty, but not for a while now. P.S. JMT have dope ass beats - but Vinni Paz sounds like a clown like he's about to kill you through your headphones Edited September 2, 2005 by djxander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxander Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 dark music is ok, sometimes life feels dark. I am more referring to art that effectively prolongs negativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$a!n+ Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Some people are negative some people are positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Scorpio Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Where's rusty? He'll have a field day on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blak Randy Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 A friend of mine and I had a discussion about whether modern music has the artistic integrity of classical music. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wish I'd been there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimrod Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbay Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 A friend of mine and I had a discussion about whether modern music has the artistic integrity of classical music. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wish I'd been there <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL seriously though, think about the aims of classical music, and think about the aims of most modern music. classical music = make fine music for royalty?modern music = make a quick buck regardless of how shite it is (most of the time) i think that artistic integrity cant really be compared when talking about different eras of music btw yeah i agree with you xander, with the whole fronting thing eg. necro. i guess some people are just hardcore like that, and they dont give a fuck about making the world a better place. and obviously some people dig that mindstate. i havent heard any jmt stuff. that emo stuff is silly though, its all about feeling bad and feeling bad with everyone else.. a downward spiral. its peoples choice though if they want to be wanky little emo kids. if i could rap i'd work towards bringing positivity like jurassic 5 or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blak Randy Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Jedi Mind Tricks are cack. I don't understand this thread. Sometimes it's nice to feel negative. SOmetimes if I'm upset I wanna listen to sad music which makes me feel more upset. It just helps me deal with it. Also sometimes I wanna listen to aggresive evil sounding music. I like hetting hyper and rowdy to it. It's fun in a different way and a good outlet. I also like shagging to the Rubberoom album which is dark and hard as fuck. It feels good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimrod Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Jedi Mind Tricks are cack. I don't understand this thread. Sometimes it's nice to feel negative. SOmetimes if I'm upset I wanna listen to sad music which makes me feel more upset. It just helps me deal with it. Also sometimes I wanna listen to aggresive evil sounding music. I like hetting hyper and rowdy to it. It's fun in a different way and a good outlet.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> word. it can go the other way though, sometimes super-positive music just makes me angry that its sung by saccharine-smiled fucks. jack johnson. fucking hell, i want to lamp the cunt. if only because of all the trendy wannabe surfer cunts at my uni who think listening to his music will increase their surf skills. cunts. i make a point of slicing those pricks if they drop in on my wave. NOW I NEED TO LISTEN TO SOME EMO DAMMIT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbay Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Jedi Mind Tricks are cack. I don't understand this thread. Sometimes it's nice to feel negative. SOmetimes if I'm upset I wanna listen to sad music which makes me feel more upset. It just helps me deal with it. Also sometimes I wanna listen to aggresive evil sounding music. I like hetting hyper and rowdy to it. It's fun in a different way and a good outlet. I also like shagging to the Rubberoom album which is dark and hard as fuck. It feels good.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah i was listening to lally the other day coz i wasnt feeling too tops. and then i put some dstyles on and i felt like slicing people with a blunt plastic knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimrod Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 LOL nothing like a bit of murder faktory to start your day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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