Jon Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I just saw that Om Unit (formerly 2tall of DV) has recorded a short video on tinnitus as part of The British Tinnitus Association's Tinnitus Awareness week: http://vimeo.com/35510156 Here's another by FreqNasty: I currently experience tinnitus in my right ear and thought it would be a good idea to talk about the condition and about the types of ear protection available to DJs. I should probably go see a hearing specialist about this, as it's a concern I've had for a while, but as the discussion is out there: I experience tinnitus in my right ear after gigs quite frequently and find loud noise areas like pubs or areas with sudden loud noises like babies screaming physically painful. I have been wearing moulded proguards for a while when I DJ or go out to venues, which I think are set to 14dB as standard, but I often find it difficult to hear aspects of tracks when I DJ without being in the room for a few hours and getting used to the sound levels, which often results in my EQing/levels not as good as usual. When I wear them I have to constantly stop people from requesting tracks in my ear and sometimes experience and underwater sensation after gigs when I take them out after leaving the venue and have to chill and do something that doesn't require my hearing, usually xbox, for a couple of hours after long gigs just to let them return to normal after I get home. In case anyone doesn't know how moulded ear plugs work, you have to go to a hearing specialist (most plugs will arrange a session for you when you order them) and they will create impressions of your ear, then they will mould them into ear plugs to fit your ear with filters inside them to reduce the frequencies you can hear in loud areas, without lowering the clarity of the sounds in your environment so you can still talk and hear music in a club. Does anyone here wear ear plugs at all when they play out? Have you found any ways of getting used to them? I'm always tempted to take them out when I have showcase sets where I really want to impress, but I know that's going to cause me even more damage in the long run, especially considering I play out 3-4 nights a week (usually at venues with cheaper and often more piercing sound systems). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wax On Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 i just tell everyone to STFU and play the music really really quietly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I've had tinnitus for over 25 years. Mine is so bad that I have one of these: - (That's a tinnitus masker BTW, not a hearing aid.) I had very mild tinnitus in both ears when I was in my late teens that was probably just the result of going to loud pubs/clubs and listening to music far too loud on my Walkman. It was always there, but the level of it was so low that it never once bothered me. One day me and a mate were messing about with fireworks, as dickhead teenagers do. He held an air bomb in his hand and lit it, but as soon as he touched the lighter to the touch paper it blew up, rather than the "bomb" firing out into the sky and exploding. After the first few seconds of shock wore off, we were both laughing, but I couldn't hear anything except a loud ringing. Neither could my friend, cos I could see him mouthing at me "can you hear anything?". After a few minutes, my hearing came back as did my friend's, but my left ear - he was to my left when the firework went off - has been fucked ever since. About 15 years ago, my tinnitus went really loud in just my left ear. It was at a level where pretty much nothing would mask it and it was driving me mad. After a couple of horrible weeks, it just stopped - well, it went back down to what I consider "normal". Then about 4-5 years ago I had an ear infection, much like Jim talks about in that video, and it got really loud again, except this time it didn't stop after a couple of weeks. It went on for months. I got to a stage where if I'd have owned a gun, I'd have probably put a bullet in my brain just to make it stop. It's been like that ever since, except I will sometimes have short periods where it's back down to "normal", then it comes back again. I tried pushing my GP to get me some Tinnitus Retraining Therapy and I saw a tinnitus specialist in Stoke. It turns out that she didn't actually do TRT though and I was fobbed off with the tinnitus masker, but I have basically learned to tune it out. If I sit there and actively think "is it there?" then of course it still is, but for the most part it never bothers me and I haven't worn that masker thing in a couple of years. My hearing is actually excellent for a man of my age (I'm 42 in case some people don't know). In my left ear, there's a slight bit of hearing loss around the frequency of the tinnitus, but other than that I can hear tones that people of my age can't usually hear, which is surprising given the battering my ears took when I was younger and didn't even know what tinnitus was. I started a thread about this on DJF to say exactly what Jim said - get some ear protection. I think a lot of people assume that it means just sticking ear plugs in your ears that make it hard to hear anything, but that's obviously not the case (and I'm sure everyone here knows that anyway). Pay the money and get some custom made ear protection, cos it really is worth it. If I'd have known about this stuff when I was a kid, I'd have taken much more care of my hearing, but there was no Internet and nobody ever even made me aware of tinnitus until I had it and my doctor told me what it was. I don't wanna be "that old guy telling the youngsters what to do", lol, but if you're going out clubbing or gigging without using ear protection you're a mong and you may well live to regret it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 nobody ever even made me aware of tinnitus until I had it and my doctor told me what it was. Snap- I never thought I could get it from DJing. It's calmed down a lot since I started wearing moulded protection. My two problems at the moment is the sensation I described when I take them out after a long night (my longest shift is 8 hours) and trying to DJ with them in. I know this might sound stupid but I also have a question about monitor speakers. If I have my plugs in, can I turn the monitor louder so I can hear more, or is this basically cancelling out what the plugs are doing and causing me more damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If you're getting any tinnitus at all after a gig, you want to look at getting some better protection. Some people seem to assume that it's just a temporary side effect of going to a club or something, but it's a sign of hearing damage - at some point your ear(s) may not recover and the more you do it, the more likely that is to happen. I'm not sure of the exact figure, although you'll find it with a Google search, but I think above 85 dB is where you have to start being careful (for prolonged periods I mean). You can get dB measuring apps for your phone, but how accurate they are I don't know. You can buy dB meters, including small pocket sized ones, for about £20, then for a home DJ set up you can make sure you're not having the monitors up too loud. With headphones it's hard to tell, cos you can't really use a dB meter with those, but if your ears show signs of fatigue or tinnitus, then you've probably got the music up too loud. Definitely go and see a hearing specialist though. They'll get you to do a hearing test where you go into a sound-proof both and you have 2 buttons (1 in each hand), then they play tones into your ears and you push the button if you hear it. Then you can see a graph of how your hearing has been affected (if it has) and they can tell you how it compares to the average hearing of a person your age. They will also be able to check for any possible underlying causes of tinnitus, but to be honest, when a DJ says they have tinnitus you can be 99.99% certain it's from hearing damage due to loud music. I would say that the strange effect you get from removing the hearing protection is down to your ears readjusting, but if you see a specialist (and do it!) then ask them as I'm only guessing. I've not experienced that myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savwar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Shit buzz.Yeah TUKI from Ireland has it too from DJing. He always wears those professional ones.Get it looked at ASAP jon... you'll hate yourself if you let it go on too far...In the record shop i worked in we met a guy who fits the proper moulded ear plugs and we got him to do a deal with a bunch of the local djs who all came into our shop for a mould and then bought them off him.I'm always pretty careful enough as far as listening to music on headphones. I keep it really low and use noise isolating ones so that i'm not compromising against loud noise in the surrounding environment.Also what i find is the worst thing about coming back from a loud gig, if i ever have a slight ringing (which i rarely do thank god...), its the ear that people are shouting into that i'll have the problem with. its not just the fact that the music was loud... i tell people to not bother shouting at me. its ignorant, but i try to smile while i do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I've been dj'ing since I was 14 and practically LIVED in headphones throughout my youth but I never gigged out regularly...hopefully that has saved me some. Although I *have* gone to a lot of hiphop shows though...and I get tinnitus occasionally but only randomly for a few seconds when certain frequencies 'set it off'...it goes away almost instantly but totally throws me off when it happens... My good friend and crew-mate from the battle days is actively dj'ing and its his bread and butter but he still hasn't taken my advice and invested in those earplugs yet. I think I'm gonna forward him those links asap and hopefully he takes heed. Good post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuno Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What's the average price for those moulded ear plugs? I'm only 16 and I haven't experienced more than a little buzz after a gig or a night-out, but this has got me scared... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You're looking at £140 and up for a decent set. This sort of thing: - http://www.ultimateear.com/Sales/MusiciansPlug.htm What you want are custom moulded ones that reduce the overall sound level by a set amount. At 16, it's the time to do it man. Your hearing could be pristine when you hit 40, solely cos you coughed up the cash to protect your ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuno Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 As you said, it's not cheap, but it's an investment. I'll try to find a hearing specialist who makes those moulds, this thread has really been eye-opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 yeah get plugs people! i only have the 20 quid ones but will be getting moulded ones soon. i actually prefer going out to gigs with them cos you dont stress out about shitty high frequencies and if its a dub night or something you can concentrate more on feeling the bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 I just arrived at the venue I'm playing tonight and I only went and left my plugs on my desk at home because I was working out what frequency they were earlier. I've come to the gig with just the case, Idiot! Luckily tonight's not a loud one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 keita told me about his tinnitus - never wanna have that! this is why i don't go to clubs, only live band shows (preferably acoustic). loud music is just un-fucking-comfortable. plus, you can't really listen to the music in the club AND it's full of cunts pushing into you. i'd rather sit back on my couch, play a 60s motown 45" eq'd to my taste, while sipping rooibos tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Bands can be hella loud too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x2k Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I just arrived at the venue I'm playing tonight and I only went and left my plugs on my desk at home because I was working out what frequency they were earlier. I've come to the gig with just the case, Idiot! Luckily tonight's not a loud one! Mate get another set of cheap ones, just for like £15 or whatever or some of those disposable foam ones and never take them out your dj bag, that way if you forget you good ones you have some sort of back up ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Good advice Tom! Another ear related thing that probably does me no favours: I always practice at home on my headphones rather than listening through speakers, i should probably alternate every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Funksmith Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I got the molded ones, and I have a cautionary word: mine are TOO good. They're the musician ones, and there were 3 choices: 9db, 15db, 25db. I chose 25 and I wish I'd chosen 15. When they're in it feels like I'm under water. It's hard to hear stuff in headphones. And when playing in a band, I feel sort of cut off from the other guys, and have trouble communicating and being on board for changes and stuff. So I usually end up taking them out, or at least one of them, and then there's no point innit? I think the 25s are more for construction workers and their ilk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 i've been thinking about this kind of thing since i got an ear infection last autumn. i got temporary tinnitus and it did my head in.since then i listen to music alot quieter but it was a massive wake up call. cheers for that link, £140ish is something im willing to pay to protect my ears. i'd use them all the time. i've skimmed this topic at the moment cos im at work, but will give it a proper read when im home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 The ones I ordered are available from Chemical Records: http://www.chemical-records.co.uk/sc/servlet/Info?Track=B1809001 The lowest they do is 18dB, which is what I must have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The ones I ordered are available from Chemical Records: http://www.chemical-...?Track=B1809001 The lowest they do is 18dB, which is what I must have. jon, do u have to get these molded or are they self molding? cos the ones steve post up, cos an extra £20 unless u want to go to orpington to get them fitted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Here's some more info on the ones I posted: - http://www.etymotic.com/hp/erme.html I've seen quite a few people on forums rate these as "the best", but then you don't know how many they've tried, so I have no idea how they stack up against others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 @ Jimmy- they're moulded for you and include a fitting session in the price. When you get the box in the post it's just information to contact them. You phone them up and they organise a moulding appointment with a hearing specialist near you for free. They send the moulds to the company and you get them in the post within 14 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 oh brilliant, i think i might go with that then. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broma Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Ironically I got my worst bout of tinnitus in my right ear that lasted for about 2 1/2 years after messing about in Logic with Jim Unit and a mate of his who was formally my music tutor. They gave me the headphones to listen to a fuckabout they were making and Jim's mate whacked the volume up all the way and bam, hello tinnitus. Everyone was pretty pissed up at the time, wasn't malicious or anything but still! Apparently clubs these days legally have to have free ear plugs if any punter asks for them. At least they did a year or two ago. I don't dj much or go clubbing much either (getting too old!) but always the tinnitus in my right ear comes back after then fades away again in a day or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Every now and again one of my ears, usually my left, will spontaneously ring for about two minutes out of nowhere. I've only ever been to one gig that was megasystem loud, and that was an Andy C/Ray Keith drum and bass night with their soundsystem, I remember it blew my full bottle of beer off the table I was sitting at. That's too loud. Other than that, I listen to things pretty quietly (or at least when loud in short bouts) and don't really go out to clubs much (I don't like mixing with the great unwashed) so my hearing's pretty solid from what I can tell. I've always been terrible at hearing people speak over loud music though, although I think that's more a concentration thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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