Recording and audio routing issue

[doppelkorn]

Hi gang,

 

Can you help with this?

 

I have a situation where I have to do some recording from Traktor but my Traktor doesn't have that feature. What do you recommend for me to do:

 

a) record to another computer?

b) record to one of those small recorders (I can borrow and zoom one from work)

c) record my computer's audio out using Audacity or something

 

This leads me to another question in turn. I will have a section of audio for a mix which I'll create as a digital file using a DAW and will probably be about 10 minutes long. I then want to record some cuts over this using Traktor. What do you think will be the best way to do this?

 

a) have the mixed audio in one deck and the scratch sample(s) in the other and record the whole thing?

b) is there a way to record from Traktor into a DAW bearing in mind I have no other interface other than the Audio4dj which Traktor will be hogging? I'd normally use a real vinyl record to cut and record from that via the Audio4dj into one track of my DAW while having the "beat" track on another track of the DAW.

 

Do I need to draw you a diagram?

[Mike-L]

Use your computers internal sound card for a quick solution. Audacity would work, but you use reaper too dont you? That'd help for you 2nd question: Put the music you want to scratch over onto a reaper track, add another track for recording your cuts onto. You might have to have the loop just on headphones, depending on your audio routing, panning works too e.g. pan the beat to the left on your mixer and the scratches to the right- that way the sounds are seperate but it's easier for editing cause you dont forget which beat your cuts actually started on.

[doppelkorn]

Cool, I'm yet to try that, so set the sound card to my internal one in reaper and that should work, then monitor using reaper? Would it not have bad latency from the internal card?

[Mike-L]

latency shouldnt be an issue in this situation - the cuts are coming from your low latency Traktor card & and you'll be monitoring these direct (before they go into the DAW) when the audio hits the record track everything should be compensated for and in sync. try it out and report back if doesn't work like that

[doppelkorn]

So how will I get the beat track (playing in Reaper) put out to the Traktor box? Or will it do so automatically if I set the card as the audio4dj in REAPER?

[Mike-L]

no you dont want to do that. track in reaper -> internal audio card out . mini jack to phono if you want it into your dj mixer (remember to pan though as described above or use headphones with the beat channel down) . alternatively plug some headphones into your internal sound card out and monitor the beat on headphones.

[doppelkorn]

Using that method I'd definitely get latency if I understand you properly.

 

Before when I used just the internal card for recording cuts I'd get a terrible lag.

 

Actually I'm gonna just try it and see if it works first before I start doubting you

[doppelkorn]

Hi Mike (and friends)

 

I'm having massive issues here. I can't record Traktor internally, that is, I can't seem t capture the sound coming out of the tracks in Traktor by any means other than routing the audio out from my DJ mixer to the mic in of my laptop. This is OK in principle becasue I can record pure mixing as long as I monitor through the Traktor box or the mixer but less than ideal because I can't monitor the actual recorded sound due to the latency of my laptop's onboard soundcard.

 

Secondly I'm not understanding Mike's explanation above. How can I record cuts using Traktor if the beat I'm cutting over is being played through the PC on, say, REAPER? As it stands I'd have the track with a sample on loaded in Traktor, have the sound of Traktor going back into my PC via the mic in and monitor it via Traktor (so no latency in what I'm monitoring) but if I want to monitor the beat how can I do that, AND record Traktor with no latency? The only solution is to have the Traktor signal going in, cut "to the beat" (but it will be recorded slightly after the beat) and then shift that track forwards to be in time.

 

 

That's my setup and I'm totally f'ing stumped.

[doppelkorn]

Ignore! I've managed to hopefully snag a 4-track, thus avoiding the issue.

[Steve]

This leads me to another question in turn. I will have a section of audio for a mix which I'll create as a digital file using a DAW and will probably be about 10 minutes long. I then want to record some cuts over this using Traktor. What do you think will be the best way to do this?

 

I use Audition for that. I use Serato rather than Traktor, but I don't see why it would be any different. I just do what Mike said and drop the audio file I'm cutting over into track 1, then cut in track 2.

 

For that kind of recording, you need to have it set up like this: -

 

Output of mixer ---> Line in on PC

Speaker out on PC --> Amp/powered speakers

 

That way, all audio on your PC and your decks is played through the same speaker out. If there is any latency, you won't hear it when you're actually recording - you'll only hear it when you play back what you've recorded as the scratching would be a bit in front/behind whatever you're cutting over, but Audition has a setting to compensate for that, so you enter in the number of milliseconds of latency and it's no longer a problem.

[x2k]

Hi Mike (and friends)

 

I'm having massive issues here. I can't record Traktor internally, that is, I can't seem t capture the sound coming out of the tracks in Traktor by any means other than routing the audio out from my DJ mixer to the mic in of my laptop. This is OK in principle becasue I can record pure mixing as long as I monitor through the Traktor box or the mixer but less than ideal because I can't monitor the actual recorded sound due to the latency of my laptop's onboard soundcard.

 

Secondly I'm not understanding Mike's explanation above. How can I record cuts using Traktor if the beat I'm cutting over is being played through the PC on, say, REAPER? As it stands I'd have the track with a sample on loaded in Traktor, have the sound of Traktor going back into my PC via the mic in and monitor it via Traktor (so no latency in what I'm monitoring) but if I want to monitor the beat how can I do that, AND record Traktor with no latency? The only solution is to have the Traktor signal going in, cut "to the beat" (but it will be recorded slightly after the beat) and then shift that track forwards to be in time.

 

 

That's my setup and I'm totally f'ing stumped.

 

Your decks are the wrong shape and the scale of your traktor box is completely wrong 2/10

[doppelkorn]

@ Steve: as we've discussed in the shoutbox that's one very plausible option but would require me buying another sound card.

 

@ x2k: I do have a baby pink USB cable though

[d00ban]

Hi Mike (and friends)

 

I'm having massive issues here. I can't record Traktor internally, that is, I can't seem t capture the sound coming out of the tracks in Traktor by any means other than routing the audio out from my DJ mixer to the mic in of my laptop. This is OK in principle becasue I can record pure mixing as long as I monitor through the Traktor box or the mixer but less than ideal because I can't monitor the actual recorded sound due to the latency of my laptop's onboard soundcard.

 

Secondly I'm not understanding Mike's explanation above. How can I record cuts using Traktor if the beat I'm cutting over is being played through the PC on, say, REAPER? As it stands I'd have the track with a sample on loaded in Traktor, have the sound of Traktor going back into my PC via the mic in and monitor it via Traktor (so no latency in what I'm monitoring) but if I want to monitor the beat how can I do that, AND record Traktor with no latency? The only solution is to have the Traktor signal going in, cut "to the beat" (but it will be recorded slightly after the beat) and then shift that track forwards to be in time.

 

 

That's my setup and I'm totally f'ing stumped.

 

Your decks are the wrong shape and the scale of your traktor box is completely wrong 2/10

 

ahahaha

[doppelkorn]

On that point, how are the decks the wrong shape? I have them in battle stance. For, er... all that battling I do

[Steve]

Here's why I think you should buy a sound card instead of that Boss recorder........

 

Disadvantage 1 - It only allows multitrack recording in up to 8 tracks.

 

Disadvantage 2 - You're recording to CF cards, then copying WAV files over to a PC to edit them, when you could just record directly into the PC.

 

Disadvantage 3 - The biggest disadvantage is how you would actually create multitrack compositions. For instance, if I was making one in Audition I may lay down a beat in track 1. This might be an instrumental or it might be built up from loops. Then, let's say I wanted to record some scratching in track 2. I would just prime track 2 to record and go at it, then I can instantly edit what I've got. I can cut bits out, I can add effects, I can chop the audio into blocks and move it around. If I think "that scratching isn't good enough" I can just jump on the decks and re-record. As I'm building up the composition, I'm recording (and re-recording where necessary) each layer and using the tools available in the software to edit/add effects/add panning or whatever.

 

How would you do this with the Boss? Let's say you built your beat up from loops. You could easily do that in Reaper, but then what? You can either play it off the PC and scratch along with it and record into the Boss, or you can copy it as a WAV to the Boss and scratch over it there. Once you've done that scratching - and remember you may just be re-recording a 5 second section, or you may be doing a whole 2 minute solo - you then have to take that WAV and copy it back over to your multitrack session in the software where you would then edit it. This process then goes on as you're building up your session, but as you build it up, you may thing "it would be better if I did the scratching in track 2 a little differently" or whatever, so that's more re-recording and more copying of WAV files back and forth.

 

There is zero logic to using the Boss to record compared to recording directly into a PC. The Boss gives you 8 tracks, limited editing tools and a small screen. The PC gives you 128 or more tracks, much better editing tools, and a much bigger screen to get an overview of your whole project, plus you're not copying WAV files back and forth (which in itself can take a few minutes if a WAV is large, depending on the speed of the card). The Boss has 2 advantages - it's a small, portable stand-alone device so it's good if you're recording sessions in different places where there is no PC, and it has a drum machine. For recording and editing mixes at home though - particularly multitracked ones - it is considerably inferior to recording directly into a PC.

[doppelkorn]

I totally understand that argument but I think that you think that I'll be using the Boss as my main multitrack editing tool which is not the case.

 

The toss up for me between an external soundcard and the Boss (neither of which I've purchased) is which provides me the best value tool for quickly and easily recording high quality audio.

 

The pros and cons for me are as follows:

 

Boss BR-600

Pros

• Cheaper than a the soundcard I would buy (audio4dj)
  
• Has a basic drum machine which is the coolest thing EVER!
  
• Portable which might come in handy for recording one of the hundreds of gigs I play every year
  
• No setup required, just plug and record
  

Cons

• Would need to import any audio recorded using the Boss into my DAW where I'll be editing the final mix
  
• Cannot import mutli tracks inot DAW, can only import one bounced stereo track
  
• Could be tricky to use if, for example, i wanted to record 10 minutes of scratching and I made a mistake 5 minutes in and wanted to pick up where I left off. I've not looked into this but I suspect it'd be tricky. Luckily I don't need to do this.
  

Native Instruments audio4dj or comparable audio interface

Pros

• Can record directly in DAW
  

Cons

• Would mean I had two of the exact same piece of hardware which seems kind of annoying, just on a parsonal level
  

My method for the entire task of creating the piece I want to create would not be affected enough by the slight convenience of recording directly inot my DAW to justify paying more to own the same product I already have. I'm only going ot be recording either solid blocks of non-edit-requiring audio into the boss, then moving them around and editing them using my DAW.

[Wax On]

Can't be arsed to read the thread in full right now but:

 

A Multitrack would be a right arsehole for editing.

 

Use a computer.

[Steve]

Hmmmmm, those Boss pros..........

 

1. You don't have to buy that particular sound card. A cheaper one would still be superior to the Boss for recording mixes at home.

2. I suspect you won't use it much once the novelty wears off.

3. "Hundreds of gigs" - exactly! Not dissing you - just being realistic.

4. You only have to set up a sound card for recording once.

 

Your final argument seems to based on you having to pay full retail price to buy a sound card you already own, but you don't have to do that. Even if you did, you would still be better off doing that if you want to record mixes and make compositions.

[doppelkorn]

I'm just gonna shrug and say my mind's made up here. I am convinced that the minor amount of extra work required (which amounts to literally dragging and dropping WAVs from the flash card to into my DAW) doesn't justify the lifetime of misery I'll feel for owning two boring-ass soundcards. And let's be honest they're the most boring bit of hardware ever. Instead I can pay less, have an amazing drum machine and will have to drag and drop about 12 files to do this mix.

 

I take your arguments and they make sense but it comes down to what I'd rather own and the answer is definitely a recorder I reckon.

 

I'll post a vid of me using it if you like.

[d00ban]

 

 

I take your arguments and they make sense but it comes down to what I'd rather own and the answer is definitely a recorder I reckon.

 

I'll post a vid of me using it if you like.

 

[doppelkorn]

Tee hee! That made me laugh quite a bit.

 

For the record I don't use a recorder in that way. I found a much more creative use for it.

[Steve]

I take your arguments and they make sense but it comes down to what I'd rather own and the answer is definitely a recorder I reckon.

 

Why? Are you buying it cost it's "cool" or something?

 

Your arguments in favour of it are weak. You don't have to spend more than the cost of the Boss on a sound card and it's easy to set up and that only needs to be done once. As for the "lifetime of misery" line, seriously? It's a piece of hardware for recording. Recording/editing via a combination of an external recorder and a PC is far more likely to cause you "misery" than just directly recording on a PC.

[doppelkorn]

Like a dog with a bone!

 

Of course it's cooler to have a recorder!

 

Sound cards are boring in that essentially they're a glorified interconnect that costs a lot of money. This recorder in particular has been designed (and I quote) so you can "be the musician" and forget about all the tech. The misery I'm talking about is me sitting there looking at my two soundcards, not really anything to do with how much more convenient they are.

 

The only argument in favour of the sound card is that it records directly into the DAW. There are no others.

[Steve]

I'm just trying to understand why you ignore advice from people with a lot more experience than you, that's all. Arrogance perhaps?

 

The only argument in favour of the sound card is that it records directly into the DAW.

 

That isn't the only argument in favour of it, but it is a huge advantage over using a completely separate recording device, then copying WAV files back and forth to and from a laptop. Still, at least in your mind you'll be using something "cool", even though nobody else will either know nor care.

[doppelkorn]

I'm not ignoring advice and being arrogant Steve. I said twice in previous posts that I understand your arguments. Perhaps the arrogance is on your side in that you know what's objectively right for me, using my money, to purchase. You won't let it drop either. You have to be proved right. Don't pretend you don't care either because you clearly are very bothered about this.