Solo Scratching vs 'Musical' Scratching

[Chee]

The skill set required for solo cuts, and the skill set needed for making musical compositions on turntables are very different.

 

Any thoughts? Or am I talking a load of crap?

[Clownstyle]

Man.. This has been said a thousand times before!!

 

But just to quote someone else. Dont you think its funny how the people with the best solo cuts are also the best at making skratch compositions eg D-styles

[Steve]

This is the same sort of thing Rick was talking about in his poll. Kind of.

 

I think the skills are essentially the same. For compositions it's just a matter of toning down the cuts cos sometimes less can be more.

[Max]

creating musical scratch tracks is a lot like acting. Being able to appreciate something and understand the emotion and subtleties etc in a piece of work doesn't always mean you can communicate well what you feel. That is, you may know what musical style you like, but your ability to produce something dynamic in the same way is separate, and takes a lot of practice. On that note i don't think that all the best scratchers are the best scratch producers. For example Q-bert's Demolition Pumpkinsqueeze Music is one of the most influential and best scratch mixtapes out there, yet the musical flow is really not there. Conversely, people like Hi-Tek, Dan the Automator, and Prince Paul are all amazing at putting together compositions that are based on scratching or scratch music, they just can't scratch that well themselves.

[Rick Flarez]

I think the skills you learn in scratch drumming are very important to making scratch music, they're precise, rythmic, restrained and repetitious: the three r's and a p.

[Sideshow]

three r's and a p - i like it

i think the rhythm is a big part

 

someone who plays an instrument has the feel for different rhythms in the notes

this is what i think scratchers learn as they progress, when they can do techniques they start to put sratches in triplets and other rhythms, so there aren't just 4 sounds to every beat etc

then things like varying the pitch come in

 

i think these are things a person with a musical background would have by default, but they'd still need to scratch to understand how certain techniques affect the sounds

 

so a person with a musical background could pick up enough techniques to make decent scratch composition type tracks without too much trouble

 

people who scratch can then also pick up the things a musician has to start with, but not everyone would pick up the musical things

so you could get people who were excellent at scratching but the musicality goes over their heads cos it's just not in them

people who do have it in them will get it brought out by the rhythm and techniques involved in learning to scratch

 

jesus, i don't know if i'm even following this now

[Guest Ryan]

so a person with a musical background could pick up enough techniques to make decent scratch composition type tracks without too much trouble

 

I agree with this.

 

But then again, people take to things differently than others.... So it's a tough one :71_71:

[Sideshow]

i think you could compare it to being a drummer

drummers learn pretty much the same skills

so you can get some brilliant drummers but a lot have no clue on the musical side

then you get people who start by playing the drums and it brings their musicality out and they move on to doing other instrumentation too

[Chee]

I know that the people with the best solo cuts also make the best scratch compositions, but I think that musical cuts are a different style altogether than cutting up Ahh or Fresh.

 

Ahh or Fresh cutting involves just one sample, and consequently take up a small part of the record. Therefore any movement you make with the record will be relatively small, but as a result, you can add a lot of subtle nuances to the sound with fine record control. Precision is perhaps not quite as big a requisite, although it is still needed. You can 'cover up' any lack of precision relatively easily.

 

Scratching in musical compositions may also require small, fine record movement, but if you're cutting up a bass line, or drumming, things are a lot different. Bassline cutting, for example, requires larger record movements, such as when you quickly spin back to get back to the first note, or whatever. You need to be able to make that spinback quickly, and precisely, with as little dead space as possible, and back to exactly where the note you want is. Any little errors, and things can sound really off.

 

You also need to be able to push or pull the record at a constant velocity, for a longer period of time, in order to maintain a constant pitch of the note. Like for example, say you have an 'A' note, and you want to play an A#, or a C. You need to be able to push the record at an EXACT speed, for the EXACT amount of time you want to sustain the note for.

 

Solo cutting with Ahh rarely needs this type of precision, as it can be argued tha Ahh has no musical pitch to speak of, therefore is not as noticeable if you aren't spot on.

 

Drumming on it's own requires another set of skills. The obvious ones that also apply to 'real' percussion applies, such as maintaining timing and rhythm. Then, you also need to have precision, as well as pitch control with the record. Also you need to be able to programme drums to an extent, to come up with patterns. I personally find it extremely difficult to maintain the precise record control needed to flip a kick, snare and hi-hat, especially if they are placed really close together.

 

I'm really talking about 'live' musical compositions, as opposed to multitracked / programmed scratch compositions. With the latter, you can edit or cover up a lot of mistakes, whereas to do shit like that in real time, it's a whole new ball game.

 

(Edited for typos)

[Rick Flarez]

Well said! That's kind of what I meant, sort of.

[Guest Deeswift]

For example Q-bert's Demolition Pumpkinsqueeze Music is one of the most influential and best scratch mixtapes out there, yet the musical flow is really not there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

WHAT!!? Q flows like a fucking river mate, you must be smoking crack!

 

The way I see it: The better your technical skills, the better you can express yourself. That's it. The better you know a language, the better you can converse. Music is like any other language.

[Sideshow]

I'm really talking about 'live' musical compositions, as opposed to multitracked / programmed scratch compositions. With the latter, you can edit or cover up a lot of mistakes, wheras to do shit like that in real time, it's a whole new ball game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agreed, to play the live compositions then you have to have great skill

but some skilled people who could play a composition like that might not be able to come up with it in the first place

so even someone with the best technique might not be able to compose a track

[Guest Deeswift]

I think it's all gone a little too far. Scratching didn't start out with the intention of composing songs at all, it's only people like Ricci motherfucking Rucker who spout all this "musical" bollocks all the time. If you wanna write songs and compose, buy a fucking guitar or something. Scratching is just watered down, trendy bullshit these days, where non-musicians can claim to be some kind of cutting edge "new jazz" musician. It really annoys me. Get off the motherfucking bandwagon.

[Sideshow]

it's just an opinion

[Chee]

I agree with you to a point Dee, but what Ricci 'MOFO' Rucker & co are doing is just an evolutionary step in scratching. Not *the only* evolutionary step, mind, but just one sub-genre of scratching, so to speak.

 

The reason I brought this up was partly due to the on0line Skype and MSN sessions I've been having lately. After QnA'ing for a while, we usually start getting a bit bored. Inevitably, someone will say 'Yo, start some drumming' and the session turns into an attempt at freestyle scratch band. And also, because I've now got Serato Scratch Live, I've got a lot of bass lines and tones and instruments I can now cut up.

 

I've never really done this sort of scratching before, and have discovered that any skills I had with Ahh or Fresh scratching, or any battle-style cuts I have did not immediately transfer over to musical-style scratching.

 

BUT, it has been FUN! I wouldn't do this shit if I still didn't enjoy it. Again, I agree about what you're saying about the whole bandwagon thing, and about making music with real instruments, to a degree. But I don't give a shit about making music, I just like to scratch. And this is something different from the normal 2-click-chirp-stab-tear-flare-crab-stab scratching I normally do. It's all new to me, and it's kinda fun.

[Steve]

What have Ricci Rucker et al pioneered though? ISP were the first scratch "band" years ago, with each DJ playing a different "instrument". I've read people dissing Wave Twisters for various reasons, but without that album and Qbert, would D-Styles have released Phantazmagorea? I get pissed off with reading about how great Ricci supposedly is. If it wasn't for people before him he wouldn't even be here. All the scratches he uses were created by someone else - I don't see a single one in The Ever that's his. He's trying to take credit for a whole scene when really all he's done is help it's evolution.

[Chee]

Ricci pioneered internet shit-talking.

[Chee]

Here's D-Style's take on it...

 

When we haven't even put out any music yet. All those files you've heard on the net are Jam sessions. We don't have a so called "sound" to copy. There isn't a formula we use. We can fuckshitup on the technical solo's and we make music too. Too me, that's just the fundamentals to being a musician and playing an instrument.

It's sad that people want to make this out to be a "either you scratch aaaaaah or you make music" thing.

 

http://66.166.122.93/djdstyles/cgi/ultimat...ic;f=3;t=006737

 

Seems like D-Styles is saying that scratching Ahh and making music are not mutually exclusive.

 

Well, I'm probably going to cop a lot of flack for this, but I still think that the skills for cutting Ahh and the skills needed for making scratching-music are different.

[Steve]

It's like playing a guitar - You wouldn't have a guy that only plays solos.

 

Also, looking at Stickey's post above he mentions Hi-Tek, Dan the Automator & Prince Paul but none of these people make all scratched pieces.

 

The more skilled you are at controlling the record and fader, the more ways you'll be able to manipulate sound. An advanced scratcher will pick up skills like drumming quicker than a beginner too. To me, all the skills are related - the better you are at one, the quicker you'll pick up another. I don't think the actual turntable skills are different in soloing and making music - but there is a difference in applying those skills. It's the same when it comes to playing live. Manipulation and exact control of the vinyl and fader are key factors or it sounds sloppy and to me, a really good solo cutter is going to have those skills. Whether they have the compositional skills to come up with the tracks in the first place is another matter.

 

All the good music is being made by people who are also excellent soloists. All the sloppy shit by people on message boards is made by people without the soloing skills. I think that kind of speaks for itself.

[Chee]

Hmmm...food for thought.

[iexist]

im just going to go with what sigma said...

 

as for scratching a solo...more is more

 

but to me..as for composition... less is more..

[rygon]

"i dont know anything about music. In my line, you dont have to."

Elvis Presley

 

I think that sums it up well