Guest Mike Reezy Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Why so close minded J? If it makes it easier to do something, Im all for it, its the advancement of the artform...... Nobody likes the samurai, those digital kutts are deifinitely "cheating" not 'making it easier'. So you like the upgrades that YOU like, but anything more than that is 'too far'? I dont get it, its like people who wont share their samples, samples dont make you better than anyone, its skillz. Same reason why people dont wanna tell other people where the skatespots are.... Take a lesson from the isp and share the knowledge...... so that people can teach you things that you would have never learned (let alone come up with) on your own. This is just the beginning, im sure there will be more crazy turntables than this made...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 i agree steve. i was just on a rant. haha. i think what i was trying to say is that there are authentic advances that will be accepted and then there are gimmicks that will come and go. i guess only time and trial can distinguish the two tho. when it comes to change usually all you get these days is people whining about how a portable turntable/mixer combo sucks because it won't change the octave of the flute sample they are scqkratching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixologist Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Just to clarfiy, the samurai crossfader doesn't making scratching easier. It can help you sound better though, IF you learn how to use it. It doesn't do the clicks for you, and you have to be precise with it because if you don't, it'll sound like crap. My point being is that since it's a series of on/off's if you move to far and you wanted to stop at off, but you stopped at on then you'll obviously sound sloppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 the fact it doesn't even help you cheat correctly makes it even worse! i never did get why they made it like that. it might work for trick mixing or something i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 the colors sure are prretty tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixologist Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Yea jeff i gotta agree, it was pretty pointless though it did start the whole magnetic/optical crossfader trend, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Why doesnt Technics make a high torque table with straight arm and +-50 pitch? Wouldnt it be profitable for them? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> not at all. technics are owned by panasonic (i think), and in the great scheme of things, turntales probably don't even make up for 0.1% of their sales. the amount of effort they'd have to put into designing the thing for the return would not be cost-effective, which might be why there's been fuckall to come from technics in the last few years apart from that cd player and maybe an updated mixer. vestax on the other hand make all their money in the DJ and Pro Sound department, so it is a financially viable option to put the effort in, same with numark and stanton... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 Would it not be fairly simple to add the extra pitch range though? Turntables may only make up a small part of their profits but that small part would be bigger if they did that. They've got the proven build quality and longevity, but technology and design has moved on and they haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Here's the bottom line - turntable sales are in decline. Every manufacturer I know is reporting that the market is dying a death as we stomp towards the evil digital domain. Thus there's no point in rethinking turntable design for DJ's, especially when scratch DJ's make up a miniscule part of that market. And just so you know - Technics aren't even showing at PLASA this year. Such is the decline in analog decks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 Do you think there really could be an end for analog decks Giz, or do you think it'll just become a niche market but stay alive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I feel there's too much scare mongering about the death of vinyl. It'll be around for a while to come as will our collections. But it's not a growth market. Any good businessman (for that is what the manufacturers are) is looking for profitable products. Most of the manufacturers already have some amazing decks in their product range so they don't need to get creative and produce the next wonderdeck. And why should they? <rant>The public's perception of a scratch DJ is DMC battling. DMC's long standing sponsorship by Technics has meant that the Technics deck has been the defacto standard for ever despite it's poor price/features ratio. If anyone on a forum asks "what deck should I buy", the response is usually Technics - but just to be play on the safe side. Up against these odds, no manufacturer will really want to piss R&D money up against the wall in the vain hope that they might just make a deck that everyone wants and will fork out a shedload of money to replace their old decks with.</rant> The QFO has done OK simply because it's different. Making limited quantities at high prices has ensured some sort of return for Vestax. This backs up your niche statement Steve. I think it'll be sometime before a manufacturer withdraws from the analog market but I know that Pioneer have no plans to enter it and I doubt Denon does either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedostyle Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 maybe techs decks arent being showed at the plasa cuz they have nothing new to show, not just because vinyl decks are in decline? introducing our brand new 1210's! oh shit youve seen em already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Spending money advertising Technics is probabbly not that effective; as Gizmo mentioned before, their status advertises itself, not to mention user testimonials. Every turntable enthusiast I know either BUYS Techs on the strength of build quality, or thinks twice before purchasing the alternatives because of possible build quality issues. That's not to say there's no issues with Techs -I've heard that the famous 'start up spin cycle' issue still plagues even the M5G. I've never seen the issue myself, or know anyone that has. Actually, come to think of it, I've never met a person who said they had an electrical problem with a Tech.... the closest you get is the odd guy who needs his RCA's swapped over. I think the facts is that Technics remain wholly adequate for purpose, and have been for decades. The altrernatives are certainly MORE than good enough to consider, it's all down to personal preferance these days, not to mention how you expect to treat them and how long you'd like them to last. Improvements introduced on other turntables are very nice indeed, but don't seem to add much to the art -yet. No turntable has yet added any features that could be considered 'indispensible'. The closest to achieving this goal would most likely be Vestax's ultra pitch... but IMO this largely gathers dust on most decks. Yes Woody's flutine is dope but then again Woody would be dope spinning his plastic on bin lids, for fucks sake. I've lost count of the number of times users of other decks bemoan the lack of a reverse on the 12. But I can count the number of times I've heard them use the reverse function in the mix on one hand. I think that says it all, really. Development costs a LOT. Validation of design changes costs a LOT. And it doesn't promise sales, either. Look at the TTX -loads of features, hasn't exactly outstripped the Tech though, has it? Or even the PDX. Ergonomics are certainly an issue with the 12x0. I've long thought that It would indeed be very nice to see a 'special edition' with the pitch slider spun 90deg. But when I think about it, after half-an-hour getting used to it, the orientation hardly causes me or anyone else I know problems. I guess it's as much an aesthetic thing. Whilst we're on the subject of aesthetics, does anyone else find just about all the newer turntables out seriously fugly? In particular the newer Numarks. A nice block with controls on will do, a serious tool. Flat surfaces to rest things on. A reasoinably durable finish. That's all I ask for, really. The new turntables are definately good -more than a match for the Tech in many respect, but I definately question what they're really 'adding'. If you're in the market for new turntables, consider this: new Techs stink out your house for at least a month with that ghastly 70's rubber smell. So if oyu're planning on copping a pair, don't even think about inviting the ladies over to your gaff unless you want them to think you're a reclusive PVC gimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 I don't think the pitch being where it is is a problem as such, just that if you moved it to somewhere you could reach it quicker then you could do more, especially if it was right next to where your hand is placed on the record. Turntables meet limits and the only way to go beyond that is to change the designs. By adding the ultra-pitch, if you make music you can get so many more sounds out of records. I've pitched things down to -30 or so before now and a sound I might not have considered using at -8 sounds totally different. The way I look at it is Cash Money and people like that were doing some amazing stuff on old mixers and Technics 1200s, but as mixers got better so did scratching. Without curve controls, being able to connect effects and shit like that, things wouldn't have moved on to the point they are now. The same goes for turntables, which is why people like Ricci Rucker, Mike Boo, D-Styles et al are composing music using PDX or other decks with a higher pitch. I also like the way Vestax responded to people and made the PDX MK2, which fixed a lot of the problems people moaned about with the MK1. As for longevity, that can only be proven with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaterNob Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 All I know is: Ultra pitch is essential if you're really into scratching The ratio of scratch to mix DJ is probably about 1,000 - 1 Sales figures are king in manufacturing That is all! pz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haych3 Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 who was the first dj to put there decks in battle mode... first i can remember was dj cashmoney... might be wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-Se7en Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 yeah i think it was cash money too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-Se7en Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 my ideal PDX would be to have the start/stop controls mirrored like the TTX, but also with the 33/45. the power switch on a pdx can't be used like a technics can cos of the weight of the platter, one pull back and shit's stopped dead, so move that outta the way. the pitch is a tricky one. if you put it down the side it moves the platter further from the mixer. it would make it loads easier to access though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 i like the tchnics power switches , and the platter of the technics. My ideal turntbale wud be technics 1210 with the vestax ultra pitch. I would also like a mixer with distortion effects on it and other effects like the 707 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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