scottie(the)goonie Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 My needle(s) gave up on me after 10 years. I just read through the 6 page thread on Shure... depressing stuff. My question is: Which Ortofon setup is going to be the closest m44-7 replacement? I'd rather just get into a new setup now instead of hunting down needles. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Man that's a good question. I will be interested to see what others say but I'll give you some info on my end... For starters make sure you look at the Orto website. They have discontinued a large number of their line and replaced them with needles that are not interchangeable with the old models. After reading A LOT on the design I opted for the S-120 which I've used before and liked good enough. It has a superior design to most of their other needles. Of course they have now discontinued that needle. They claim they will continue to make replacement styli but I would not bet on that for long. Likewise the Qbert needles seem like thye could be decent and have not been discontinued but they are the old design as well and so I would expect they will be cut eventually. If you are ok with that risk they and the S-120 seem the most promising as far as specs go. If you want to go with the Mk II models then I think your choice really comes down to the Mk II Digital and the Mk II Scratch. If you try either of those or the Qbert let me know what you think. I've bought plenty of 44-7s as backup for a number of years (use the S-120 on my third TT) but wonder what I will transition to when they are all used up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie(the)goonie Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 Thanks Dig ... so the turntablists are getting the raw deal here. I suppose the Concord Mk II scratch would be the ticket, but man, the full pair are $264 on Amazon! How do you like the Concord shape vs the standard Technics headshell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Another vote for Ortofon Scratch MKII here! They are definitely a progression of the QBerts (without paying the space midget licensing fees for his name) rather than the original Scratch model. I reckon still not quite up to 44-7 levels of groove holding, but so so close and the sound is much better if you play real records with them. Like all Ortofons they seem to take a long time to bed in and reach their full performance, but be patient and they do. The only downsides are cost (although once youve bought them, spare styli arent too bad) and I know some people like to mis-align their headshell mounted carts on Technics to improve skip resistance, which you obviously cant do with Concordes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkei Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I used to play on Stanton 500 AL'sthen went to Whortofon Nightclubs (OM-Version)and then finally switched to Shures I got some replacement stylies...so as long as they hold I wont go back to Whortofons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 The angled headshell thing always confused the hell out of me...Ive always used ortofons, theyre dope but can take longer to loosen up . I think they sound clearer too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Its probably worth pointing out that Ortofon Nightclubs are definitely not a scratch stylus. They have elliptical stylus tips which wont hold the groove well at all and will wear the record much more. Spherical styli are what you need and what all Scratch or general purpose DJ carts will have. The point of elliptical styli is better sound quality, although even that has its pros and cons - they show more of what the record has in its grooves, good or bad. So where they work well with brand new 12s or pristine classical LPs, they make things like old soul and reggae 45s that either werent pressed to the highest standard or have a bit of wear sound twice as noisy as they do when played with a spherical stylus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 The angled headshell thing always confused the hell out of me...As janky as it looks with headshells canted to what looks like about 45 degrees on the headshell, its a like DIY version of a straight arm - when done properly, the headshell should line up with the tonearm axis point. It does definitely help with skip resistance, but sound quality suffers and record wear increases. Personally, I just couldnt do it to my records. Maybe if someone was just using DVS it wouldnt matter though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBearOne8III Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 check our Jico N447's. I havent tried them yet, but they were reviewed on dj city. Jico website : https://www.jico-stylus.com/product_info.php?products_id=1013ebay: https://www.ebay.com/p/Jico-A040110-Stylus-for-Shure-N-44-7-Replacement-Needle-From-Japan/1940066478?iid=253996815930&chn=ps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkei Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Its probably worth pointing out that Ortofon Nightclubs are definitely not a scratch stylus. They have elliptical stylus tips which wont hold the groove well at all and will wear the record much more. Spherical styli are what you need and what all Scratch or general purpose DJ carts will have. The black/yellow Nightclubs came in both styles (elliptical and spheric). I of course had the spheric version. IMO they sounded better and where holding the groove as well as the DJ (blue ones). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Oh interesting! Ive never come across spherical Nightclubs before. I guess cos the only people I know who bought them were strictly mixing DJs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 The angled headshell thing always confused the hell out of me...As janky as it looks with headshells canted to what looks like about 45 degrees on the headshell, its a like DIY version of a straight arm - when done properly, the headshell should line up with the tonearm axis point. It does definitely help with skip resistance, but sound quality suffers and record wear increases. Personally, I just couldnt do it to my records. Maybe if someone was just using DVS it wouldnt matter though. yeah its the fact that the stylus is now sitting wonky in the groove, so it would wear out one wall more than the other i think. that and the stereo image would be twisted too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest It'sPhilFromThursdays Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I never found that ^^^^ and i used to do that with all my techers shurez. It just lines up with the line of the main part of the tone arm so it's basically straight rather than the kinky bitch that it is. You can counter it with anti skating to a degree too. Dudes at Skratch Uk prob about 1998/9 told me when i was noobish and i obeyed and found that i liked it all nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie(the)goonie Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 I appreciate all the honest answers here. I purchased the pair (Concord Mk2 Scratch) last night (A-Skate, good observation about the free case now that my Shure case won't work anymore). After tax these were $290.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danswift Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I've got a mate who would like to get a spare needle or two for a Stanton 500 cart since the one he has is getting long in the tooth. He's having trouble finding them locally and even the UK sites he bought from in the past seem to either not stock them any longer or have them at stupid prices. Any suggestions fellas so I can pass some info on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Sadly, the answer is probably to ditch the 500 for a cartridge they still make the stylus for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danswift Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Sadly, the answer is probably to ditch the 500 for a cartridge they still make the stylus for.Ok thanks mate,much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Theres no doubt that odd third party made replacement on eBay. Although Ive found them to be of pretty variable quality, particularly if theyre gonna be used for DJing. Whatever the current base model Ortofon cart is would probably sound better and be easier to get styli for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danswift Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Theres no doubt that odd third party made replacement on eBay. Although Ive found them to be of pretty variable quality, particularly if theyre gonna be used for DJing. Whatever the current base model Ortofon cart is would probably sound better and be easier to get styli for.Thanks again mate I'll pass this on for him to consider the Ortofon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 The Scratch mkII's are more or less the QBert mkII. I'd argue that people have been sleeping on Ortofon for no reason, they have been a solid option for the M44-7s all along. And for DVS use, they have been the better choice for a long long time. It's like the love for Technics turntables vs. the others, mostly grounded on brand loyalty. I've been using the Mix mkIIs after my last M44-7s started being worn out. Been happy thus far, even though I cheaped out since I couldn't afford a pair of Scratch mkIIs at that time. They have decent tracking, sh**ty output volume, but less problems setting up when playing out compared to my old Shures. I'm still going to get a pair of Scratch mkIIs, and keep these as a backup after my round of upgrades (innofader, turntable, monitors...). Think of it this way: you get a cool cartridge case if you're getting a pair of Ortofons. Hope this helps soften the blow. I started with Ortofon and found them to skip way more and cost more... I also found that sometimes the concordes would drag on the back of the record if I'd go to a friend's... not sure why... same turntable and setup... defies logic but it's happened to me. I don't mind Ortos if in a headshell but really dislike the concordes and like I said, in my personal experience it's almost as good as Sure but for more money which in my book isn't good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 What would be smart is if Ortofon would just make a scratch styli that would fit in a 44-7 needle mount. Its probably worth pointing out that Ortofon Nightclubs are definitely not a scratch stylus. They have elliptical stylus tips which wont hold the groove well at all and will wear the record much more. Spherical styli are what you need and what all Scratch or general purpose DJ carts will have.The point of elliptical styli is better sound quality, although even that has its pros and cons - they show more of what the record has in its grooves, good or bad. So where they work well with brand new 12s or pristine classical LPs, they make things like old soul and reggae 45s that either werent pressed to the highest standard or have a bit of wear sound twice as noisy as they do when played with a spherical stylus.That's good to know... I didn't realize 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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