Guest rasteri Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 So I have a few things I've never learned but kinda feel like I should. 1. How the fuck do vekked/vajra/viktor/other DJs that begin with V get their 3-click combos so damn fast? What muscle groups should I be training up? Is it all in the wrist, or the elbow, or the fingers? My guitarist mate tells me I should study guitar picking theory, but he also believes that metal is the only valid modern genre of music (seriously) so I'm loathe to accept anything he says. 2. How do DJs that sticker to the headshell cope with the difference between straight and s-shaped tonearms? Does their brain just magically rotate all their reference points? 3. How do you calculate the underhang for a tonearm if you know the distance between the pivot point and the spindle? I tried looking at page 725 of this - http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/RDH4.pdf- but it just confused me even more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiipFire Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) 2. Yes, atleast personally Edited July 26, 2015 by HiipFire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 My 3 cliker is new to me ras and I dont know what the other lads do to train but I can share something I learned in a different discipline. Ive been doing a 5x5 weightlifting program which involves a lot of squatting and the tutor said if u want to warm up the muscles to do squats then dont go on a bike or go for a run or play dominoes because you wont be prepairing the muscles your going to use while performing the squat. The best way to warm up for squats is to squat but light. With that in mind I suppose the best way to increase 3 clik speed would be to just 3 clik??I have tried other stuff while learning it like puttin my left hand in my pocket(playin with mi nads) while 3clikin over a everlastin tone it does help you concentrate on the fader hand rhythm It also helps me if I do it acapella style because I aint trying to keep up with the tempo of the song I can concentrate on just gettin em sharp for some teason I learn quicker learnin a cut to my internal rhythm? ? Im no expert far from it but I thought id share my thought process wit ya 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Also I have found for some reason extending my fader arm out straight which means standing a little to the left of the turntable allows me to tense my full arm up which seems to give me a little more speed. I have my tables quite low and that helps a bit with the extension technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Im now going to contradict myself as I have heard the key to speed is to relax the muscle but the tensing thing helps me but then our bodies are all very different so what works for one may not work for another. Ive heard mi pal jam knocking shockingly sick fader speeds out and I know for a fact he tenses. But he has bin doin that since bout 97 I believe.The guy can even do it with his weak hand ffs so I suppose thats a genetic thing??? I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdisciple Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 3 click speed really just takes loads of practice or at least that's how it was for me. I have been really focusing on 3 click stuff the last 2-3 years and can now cleanly double time 3 click stuff up to 95 or 100 bpm before it becomes sloppy or just sounds kinda ridiculous. I really immersed myself into the 3 click and 3+click stuff so that was probably the biggest factor, strangely enough i have more variation and power in my 3 clicking abilities than my 2 clicking abilities currently.I find i have the cleanest 3 click cuts when my fader hand is fresh and relaxed. I think the clean speed comes from a combination of the fingers and wrist. After I've drilled or practiced too much or just try to go way too fast I tend to tense up and miss clicks here and there. This is also finger/wrist pinching style, no fuitas or crabbing. I am hamster like Vekked but I don't think Vajra/Chris Karns or Mr Viktor are hamster though, so maybe no big difference there.Fader hand speed is always important for double timing 3 click scratch's and combos esp. at higher tempos but the cuts can sound very unclean if the record hand motion is sloppy or off time as well. Swing flares and the auto swing pattern are great for training 3 click speed in both hands. Phase shifted / delayed 3 click flares / tugjobs, reverse 3 click version baby banhs (johhnny1moves 3 clicker combo) and the non reverse version aren't as physically demanding as swing flares on the record hand.I can post some vids and or ttms of the 3 click patterns i regularly train if that helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Id like to tek a skeg at some of them patterns dude defo ▲▲ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 me 3 clicking in 1997, haha, i dont think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekked Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 So I have a few things I've never learned but kinda feel like I should. 1. How the fuck do vekked/vajra/viktor/other DJs that begin with V get their 3-click combos so damn fast? What muscle groups should I be training up? Is it all in the wrist, or the elbow, or the fingers? My guitarist mate tells me I should study guitar picking theory, but he also believes that metal is the only valid modern genre of music (seriously) so I'm loathe to accept anything he says. 2. How do DJs that sticker to the headshell cope with the difference between straight and s-shaped tonearms? Does their brain just magically rotate all their reference points?1. I pay a lot of attention to fader technique and I agree with your guitarist mate about speed picking theory, I've applied a lot of that to my fader technique over the years. I think the best advice is trying to unify your fader technique across as many scratches as you can. A lot of guys will click differently for chirps than flares than transforms than stabs, but really your fader is just going on/off so you should be gripping and moving it all in an identical way with the exception of crabs/twiddles/scratches that inherently require a different grip. This way every scratch you practice improve your fader control for other scratches, whereas if you change your technique from one cut to the next you don't get that. Also hand position. I read a good tip that you should try to move your hand as fast as you can with little regard for control and see where your wrist/hand/fingers naturally want to go when you click fast, and that's how you should try to click slow. So when you speed up you're not capped by using a grip or hand position that isn't optimized for moving fast, and again you want to have a consistent movement no matter what speed you do. I tuck my elbow on my fader hand and find it makes movement more efficient too. Making the smallest fader clicking movements possible is key as well. You don't want to move the fader 2 cm between clicks. When I'm clicking really fast my fader knob line pretty much doesn't go past the 2nd line from the edge, so it's max 3-4mm of travel between clicks. And lastly, you gotta train both slow and fast. The cliche advice of "you have to walk before you run" is very true, most people who ask me to teach them how to click fast first thing I do is tell them to do the technique ultra slow like 60bpm and usually problems come up pretty quick and that's the root of the problem. But also don't stay in your comfort zone too much, up until this year I was feeling pretty safe around 85-90 bpm and I rarely pushed myself faster than that but after most of my scratch routines were using beats from 95-100bpm I started forcing myself to cut way faster than I felt I could/was comfortable, and after a couple of months I started actually being able to hang at tempos I never thought I could cut at before, but it was all in my head. 2. You look at the head shell for your reference instead of the actual sticky/clock position. So to me it doesn't matter if it's straight arm or S arm because my reference point for where to move the sticker is the same object and I'm just pulling the sticker back to wherever that is. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubba Dutchdj Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Every several months or so I come across a slab of solid advice from Vekked and it always leaves me thinking "ffs, this shit is (now seemingly) obvious! Why didn't I already know this?!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdisciple Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 That part about starting slow and then speeding up afterwards is so crucial!I had to start learning some patterns so slow I had to get the technique down well enough before i could even move on to performing it slow on a slow beat. But with perseverance it pays off!Also very interesting tidbit about "unifying fader technique on as many scratches as you can." I never really thought about it consciously but this is totally true. Combining certain cuts are hard for other reasons, but this advice helps your flow overall I think.And congrats on your DMC online win Vekked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Funksmith Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 It's like tai chi, which you practise really slow but then you can speed it up when someone dishonours your family, in order to kick their ass. Tai chi slow is relaxing, tai chi fast can fuck shit up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 me 3 clicking in 1997, haha, i dont think so.We was doing three consecutive transforms in 97. All we had to do was put a slight pause inbetween the first and second tranny and boom closed fader three click. And youve always been able to do that tensed up fast transformy shit on the switches with both hands because ur a mutant!10 billion weak hand cliks later and my left fader hand is still slow and feeble you cant put that down to you just practising more than me. Its a genetic thing thats my excuse anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Besides I never said u was 3 clikin in 97 I was refering to the fact u tensed up to achieve speed. Tensin can give speed similar to drillin or rubbin a clipper lighter on ur ps1 pad.There's always more than one way to skin a cat. And whats up with callin me out on here?? "I dont think sooooo" sounded well snotty like callin me a liar or summet? If u wanna scratch battle me at the barbie then bring it jammy toes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 yr posts r pure comedy jud.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericuk Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 get a room you two x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Ur speedy cliks dont scare me brudda. Stand up and be counted or sit down like a clown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I aint gettin a room with him eric with his granola n lentills n all that shit. Bet his farts smell like his cutz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 dont b a cunt for all of yr life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 dont b a cunt for all of yr life...Lol its got me this far I doubt ill change now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Burglar Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I never really thought of that "unified" fader movement thing. Dope stuff! Don't sleep on various fader grips and whatnot though. That type of shit can affect timing and = funk, even if it's not as efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericuk Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 real talk. watching someone like Symatic or Pete shows how unified fader positioning makes everything tighter and efficient. I'm a bit like a bull in a china shop, my fingers thrash about aimlessly and occasionally do what I want them to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 real talk. watching someone like Symatic or Pete shows how unified fader positioning makes everything tighter and efficient. I'm a bit like a bull in a china shop, my fingers thrash about aimlessly and occasionally do what I want them to.I find different grips suit different techniques but that's just for me, I also find certain cuts sound very subtly different with different grips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELGEE Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Vekked is wise, I'm going to try some of that. I'm getting back in to cutting and I have been trying to really slow down but muscle memory just wants to make me cut fast. I really struggle to do things slow, sound really sloppy and my flows are so repetitive. Also noticed I never crab, I ripped my finger nail off one time and it hurt for ages so I just stopped doing them but over time I just forgot them. its amazing how fast your cuts deteriorate if you don't practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteryV Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 The grip thing is something I've been working on, but can't seem to fix. After years of obsessing over 2 clickers, my speed is pretty good when pinching vertically (fingers perpendicular to the faceplate), but I can't seem to slow them down. Mentally I'm "turning off" the fader. For things like autobahns or boomerangs (which are new scratches to me after 10 years away from the decks), my hand positioning is far more horizontal (fingers pointing parallel to the mixer faceplate) and mentally I'm "turning on" the fader. I'm having a lot of trouble reconciling the two for things like Boomflares, and even for getting the speed of things like boomerangs up. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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