I was really high

[milk]

not really read any of this but with regards to what you said milk about not being able to do very complex drum patterns on the table unlike you can on CEP or using other soft/hardware/real drums (which if my brain aint too shaterred from my mindless work was in reference to Ricci's stuff)...

 

I agree BUT (and yes it's a bit but, eh eh) imagine what 5 people with drumming skills on par or above ricci's could do together... cos that imho would get us to a stage where you'd hear drum patterns being done which cant be replicated anywhere else...

A good example, and a realistic one for now, is what the DJ Big Band in Belgium is doing... check em out www.djbigband.tk

12 DJs, one sax player, one singer. DJs are split into different sections, so you can have 3-4 guys doing just drums and have much more finesse and depth to the drum beat then one man drum scratching...

 

just a thought... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah I hear you, I understand that I was just talking about one guy who makes music, and stuff, its a lot more economical to have one drummer as opposed to twelve people on turntables.

hehe.

[Kper]

maybe its more economical but in the context of table music i wouldnt say its a factor necessarily.

Seriously tho check their site and listen to their music, you never know what you might find that you hadn't thought of.

[Phology]

for fucks sake

why does everyone have to go into great detail and use big fancy words

at

the

end

the

day

its

just..

fucking...

MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

you either like the file or you dont

im all for debates but is this one worth it?

no..

all the time spent writing all the bullshit you wrote

you cuda practiced, had a cup of tea....WATEVA!

but no...

[milk]

I would when is it readily available to session with 12 guys, the thing is, I could still distinguish from real drums.

Its great yeah, but each hit sounds the same, with real drums, you can add a lot more variation.

Its just personal opinon thats all, I wasnt being arrogant or I cant help what I like, nor do I want to or I wouldnt be true to myself.

[milk]

for fucks sake

why does everyone have to go into great detail and use big fancy words

at

the

end

the

day

its

just..

fucking...

MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

you either like the file or you dont

im all for debates but is this one worth it?

no..

all the time spent writing all the bullshit you wrote

you cuda practiced, had a cup of tea....WATEVA!

but no...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

talk about busting a nut hahaheh

[Phology]

it jus annoys the hell outa me is all

its like people think they're on a higher level to others

sure u may be a dope scratcher or wateva..

but does that automaticly make u a prick or sumthin??

it shudnt, but it happens too often for my liking

[milk]

Yeah I know the days of people expressing their opinions without shit gettin outa control are long gone

[Guest Deeswift]

http://s13.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0HTUC5E...8T1788FQK597GZY

 

 

LOL!

[Vet]

That was a nice file, but what im saying is... if it was a very very complex jazz solo on piano, it could not be imitated no matter what the turntablists skill. The fact is untill technology advances, you cannot make the or perform the key changes quick enough or use chords at the same time. Thats all I was saying... If I wanted to do that Id use a Piano etc, like DeeSwift said, I like to keep scratching what it really is.

As for progression yes the art form is progressing but to me, and this is my opinion the turntable will never be a respected instrument if people are going to flip samples of piano/guitar instruments all the time, why because complexity is limited. You simply cannot perform really complex pieces hence why that shit hasnt been implemented into studios world wide as a recording base for a musical piece. As well as sound issues I might add.

 

I can see there is a progression taking place, but I dont see it going anywhere in the musical stakes, when IMO I believe more professional results can be used from actual instruments.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Digital production isn't supposed to sound like analogue manipulations.

Your reasoning doesn't make much sense really.....if you want the natural sound aesthetic of the turntable then USE the turntable....nobody is trying to pass it off as anything BUT that. Scratching isn't ahh & fresh over battle breaks.....and its not piano scales over downtempo all scratched beats....

 

The turntable is an valid instrument and can be part of live instrumentation or can be a instrument/production tool on its own merits.....you don't see it going anywhere in musical stakes because its too new and like I said...there aren't many 'professionals' doing it.

 

Scratching is only as complex and varied as the person using it......"professional results" come from professional people, Standard instruments aren't inherently better then a turntable and vice versa.

 

I just don't get people with your mind set, people need to realize its STILL in the beginning stages.

 

Keep in mind tha guitar used to only have ONE string.....can you imagine how silly you would sound NOW if you dismissed the guitar at its earliest stages of development??

 

Patience and practice will lead to progression....like I said...give it time and stop expecting it to be equivalent in terms of progression when comparing to an instrument, hundreds of years old with thousands of years of combined practice & knowledge dedicated to it.

Edited March 14, 2005 by Real-Izm

[Vet]

it jus annoys the hell outa me is all

its like people think they're on a higher level to others

sure u may be a dope scratcher or wateva..

but does that automaticly make u a prick or sumthin??

it shudnt, but it happens too often for my liking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I hope thats not directed at me(?)

 

I think the perception of the attitude comes with (perhaps) the fact that this is a fairly exclusive and new art form in terms of composition at the level it is being pushed to today. If something is exclusive....its usually perceived as being 'worth' more or being 'greater'.

 

i.e. - the flare scratch when it came out

 

....just a thought. ...and yes I know it doesn't merit being an asshole, but I think its part of the basis of the 'ego'/perception of ego.

[milk]

That was a nice file, but what im saying is... if it was a very very complex jazz solo on piano, it could not be imitated no matter what the turntablists skill. The fact is untill technology advances, you cannot make the or perform the key changes quick enough or use chords at the same time. Thats all I was saying... If I wanted to do that Id use a Piano etc, like DeeSwift said, I like to keep scratching what it really is.

As for progression yes the art form is progressing but to me, and this is my opinion the turntable will never be a respected instrument if people are going to flip samples of piano/guitar instruments all the time, why because complexity is limited. You simply cannot perform really complex pieces hence why that shit hasnt been implemented into studios world wide as a recording base for a musical piece. As well as sound issues I might add.

 

I can see there is a progression taking place, but I dont see it going anywhere in the musical stakes, when IMO I believe more professional results can be used from actual instruments.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Digital production isn't supposed to sound like analogue manipulations.

Your reasoning doesn't make much sense really.....if you want the natural sound aesthetic of the turntable then USE the turntable....nobody is trying to pass it off as anything BUT that. Scratching isn't ahh & fresh over battle breaks.....and its not piano scales over downtempo all scratched beats....

 

The turntable is an valid instrument and can be part of live instrumentation or can be a instrument/production tool on its own merits.....you don't see it going anywhere in musical stakes because its too new and like I said...there aren't many 'professionals' doing it.

 

Scratching is only as complex and varied as the person using it......"professional results" come from professional people, Standard instruments aren't inherently better then a turntable and vice versa.

 

I just don't get people with your mind set, people need to realize its STILL in the beginning stages.

 

Keep in mind tha guitar used to only have ONE string.....can you imagine how silly you would sound NOW if you dismissed the guitar at its earliest stages of development??

 

Patience and practice will lead to progression....like I said...give it time and stop expecting it to be equivalent in terms of progression when comparing to an instrument, hundreds of years old with thousands of years of combined practice & knowledge dedicated to it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is why i said untill technology advances.

 

Untill it does, I cannot see it going anywhere, why whats wrong with my mindset? I just have an opinion thats all. You cannot criticise me for having an opinion, this shit blew outa control from such a simple statement I made.

 

Everyone has different views like I said I stated my points, and reasons for my thinking, im not going to go back on it its what I believe, but I dont want shit to get outta control so im not going to eleborate or reply on this "subject" anymore.

Peace

[Guest Deeswift]

I would when is it readily available to session with 12 guys, the thing is, I could still distinguish from real drums.

Its great yeah, but each hit sounds the same, with real drums, you can add a lot more variation.

Its just personal opinon thats all, I wasnt being arrogant or I cant help what I like, nor do I want to or I wouldnt be true to myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Here I am again agreeing with milk, in fact he probably expressed the way I feel about it better than I could myself, hehe. Really though, if I had a choice whether to listen to 12 turntablists drumming or Virgil Donati, I'm pretty damn sure I'd pick Virgil every time. I respect the turntable for what it is, and my way of thinking has developed through looking at DJ's and just seeing frustrated musicians. While ever we are using other people's sounds and music, samples of traditional instruments, and every other person is cutting up Dirtstyle records using the same techniques, the turntable will never be looked upon as a proper instrument by the masses.

[Guest Dylan Taylor]

I would when is it readily available to session with 12 guys, the thing is, I could still distinguish from real drums.

Its great yeah, but each hit sounds the same, with real drums, you can add a lot more variation.

Its just personal opinon thats all, I wasnt being arrogant or I cant help what I like, nor do I want to or I wouldnt be true to myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Here I am again agreeing with milk, in fact he probably expressed the way I feel about it better than I could myself, hehe. Really though, if I had a choice whether to listen to 12 turntablists drumming or Virgil Donati, I'm pretty damn sure I'd pick Virgil every time. I respect the turntable for what it is, and my way of thinking has developed through looking at DJ's and just seeing frustrated musicians. While ever we are using other people's sounds and music, samples of traditional instruments, and every other person is cutting up Dirtstyle records using the same techniques, the turntable will never be looked upon as a proper instrument by the masses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

"Instrumentalists that don't want to exceed their own and their instrument's history and limitations, who don't want to achieve the magical, the astonishing, should hang their instruments on the wall and make room for others that have something substantial to give. They're in the way!" Johannes Bergmark

[Guest Deeswift]

I agree. That's why I only listen to virtuosos and geniuses.

[milk]

Hehe. This is crazy.

 

Thanks for the support guys, i was just expressing an opinion, shit got way outa hand its mad, in no way did i mean to cause offence, like i said it was just an opinion these guys are nuts they just want any excuse to bash DV, anyway sorry for all the damn trouble it caused i guess.

[Phology]

it jus annoys the hell outa me is all

its like people think they're on a higher level to others

sure u may be a dope scratcher or wateva..

but does that automaticly make u a prick or sumthin??

it shudnt, but it happens too often for my liking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I hope thats not directed at me(?)

 

its directed at anyone who reads it and thinks....

 

.."thats me"

[Steve]

Hehe. This is crazy.

 

Thanks for the support guys, i was just expressing an opinion, shit got way outa hand its mad, in no way did i mean to cause offence, like i said it was just an opinion these guys are nuts they just want any excuse to bash DV, anyway sorry for all the damn trouble it caused i guess.

 

Shit happens man. This thread is done.

[Guest Deeswift]

Yep, no worries milk, thanks for having our back, no need to apologize.