dan01 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Alot of people been slating it on facebook etc but hey... I think you cant really nock it until you try it! there is more to them than the sync button. what does everyone else think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Looks pretty mental, the tech has come so far. Not really sure wireless technology is really needed in the DJ booth though, it's all getting a bit bonkers if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I don't know too much about it, but for people that use CDJs it looks pretty fucking great if you ask me. I'm surprised they even bothered keeping the CD player, cos CD is probably the most pointless format of all for DJs, but then maybe the cost of the CD drive is peanuts compared to the cost of the overall product, so they might as well leave it in. I totally disagree with Gizmo's post about it on DJ Worx though, well - about the autosync feature specifically. A tiny minority use autosync so it frees them up to be more creative. The vast majority use it cos they suck balls at mixing and without it, they wouldn't even be DJs cos they'd either give up or not get into it in the first place - and that would be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkei Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I totally disagree with Gizmo's post about it on DJ Worx though, well - about the autosync feature specifically. A tiny minority use autosync so it frees them up to be more creative. The vast majority use it cos they suck balls at mixing and without it, they wouldn't even be DJs cos they'd either give up or not get into it in the first place - and that would be a good thing. Co-sign. It's the same syndrom when it comes to DVS/Cuntrollerism vs Turntablism (always claiming it saves you time which you can use for being more "creative")... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 When I listen to mixes on DJ Forums, I often leave feedback saying "you used autosync, right?" cos the classic signs are: - 1. The mix is bland as fuck with no scratching or anything in it2. The phrase matching is often out3. Sometimes I can hear that a track was dropped in a fraction too early, but then it quickly syncs up perfectly So it's clear that the person is either fucking awesome at beatmatching but dog shit at everything else, or they're using auto-sync - it's always the latter. Having to wade through a sea of mixes like that to find the good ones is a pain in the arse. Hearing that in a club would be disappointing too. I'm also seeing more and more gripes from DJs who are being low balled by these n00bs when it comes to gigs. Overall, I just don't see the trade-off as worth it. No auto-sync was a built in barrier for people with no passion to learn. It's a shame that there's no way to lock that feature away until someone has learned the basics, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x2k Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 As far as I'm concern the companies should add all the fancy features they like so long as the fundamental features solid and designed as well as possible, it's then up the user to decide how to use them, With regards to steve's comment about CD being the most pointless DJ medium I disagree on the grounds that it's by far the easiest format to use - no heavy vinyl, no wiring up a DVS, no lugging a controller, saying that USB pen drives would be better...or how about a cloud based record bag Some people will make a positive use out of them, others will be lazy, check out the Kissy Sellout pioneer video if you haven't already, I was recently alerted to his DJ skills and while I'm not a massive fan I certainly like the way he plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 With regards to steve's comment about CD being the most pointless DJ medium I disagree on the grounds that it's by far the easiest format to use - no heavy vinyl, no wiring up a DVS, no lugging a controller, saying that USB pen drives would be better...or how about a cloud based record bag Those decks have USB and SD card slots now so you can have all your tracks and date stored, so CD's are pretty pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 The reason I said that about CD is because it's just a way to store bits. Compared to other ways to store bits (USB stick for instance) it's not very good. USB = higher capacity, faster transfer rates, no moving parts, and you can fit enough music for a whole evening on a stick the size of your thumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I guess they're good news for pro club djs who just want to rock up with their memory stick and get on with it. But in the real world, two of them and a matching Pioneer mixer is gonna cost thousands and that's where I lose all interest. Even if I had the money, I can think of so many ways I'd rather spend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 dont lie. if you had the money they'd be 15 of them at the next SSS i wouldnt mind having a go on one, but yeh im with rock well, its alot of money, im not sure who would own them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 When I listen to mixes on DJ Forums, I often leave feedback saying "you used autosync, right?" cos the classic signs are: - 1. The mix is bland as fuck with no scratching or anything in it2. The phrase matching is often out3. Sometimes I can hear that a track was dropped in a fraction too early, but then it quickly syncs up perfectly So it's clear that the person is either fucking awesome at beatmatching but dog shit at everything else, or they're using auto-sync - it's always the latter. Having to wade through a sea of mixes like that to find the good ones is a pain in the arse. Hearing that in a club would be disappointing too. I'm also seeing more and more gripes from DJs who are being low balled by these n00bs when it comes to gigs. Overall, I just don't see the trade-off as worth it. No auto-sync was a built in barrier for people with no passion to learn. It's a shame that there's no way to lock that feature away until someone has learned the basics, lol.You're dumping a whole lot of blame on the sync button there Steve. As I just wrote on DJWORX, syncing is not mixing. Bad mixing has been happening since before the digital age. The issue of moaning DJs isn't to do with syncing either - it's to do with the digital age making music more of less free, controllers being way more affordable and smaller, and kids not having the overheads of families and mortgages that more established DJs have. It's also more to do with changes in culture, where people go out to get pissed and have a much lower quality threshold than ever. And the recession has closed more pubs and clubs than I can ever remember. So the digital age has brought a slew of young DJs with little outlay lowballing clubs to get gigs knowing that the club owner needs to keep overheads down, who in turn keeps the drinks cheap and music playing. It's not the situation for all clubs or events, but the issue is a lot bigger and more complex than the automation of a simple task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Auto-sync is just one of the things that attracts a certain type of wannabe DJ to a product, but it's the reason why people are now posting up mixes within the first week of owning their first setup. People who can't tell that their phrase matching is off posting up shite mixes just because the beatmatching and levels are good because the software has done it for them. There's good reasons to learn to beatmatch manually: - 1. You can mix on any gear, cos you might not always get to use your own at a gig.2. You can mix with other DJs easily.3. You may find it more rewarding and actually fun, which in turn gives you a bit of a spark to learn other stuff. A person that buys gear and skips learning some of the basic, core skills is highly unlikely to be doing so because "it gives them more time to be creative". They're doing it because they want to take the fastest route to posting up mixes and trying to get gigs. Advocating skipping learning beatmatching - which your site is doing - is like advocating kids skipping learning their times tables because they can do it with a calculator. On DJ Forums I will try and coax people into learning manual beatmatching first, because once they have it down it's a skill they'll always have, even if they then switch to using auto-sync. Your article says that beatmatching is "an easily learnable process" and that's the argument I hear some n00b DJs using for why they don't learn it - "it's so easy, I might as well skip it" - but that makes no sense to me at all. I think the opposite way - if it's so easy, you might as well learn it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 The internet's just made the spectrum of society more visible, and DJing is fashionable - that's all there is to it really. This is what I said in that cdj thread in not so many words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I've written articles on why beat matching is an important skill to learn before, btw - you literally rewire your brain learning to do it and it pays off for any musicianship. The problem is only hip hop DJing has any form of musicianship, all other forms of DJing are just crafts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Perhaps further to this the reason you're getting annoyed Steve is because people are calling themselves hip hop DJs when in fact what they're doing is using very basic dance music techniques to mix tunes that are put in the hip hop category in iTunes together. I'm loath to bring up the whole 'what is hip hop' thing after last time, but Jon's recently hit on this and whilst I have as recently as a couple of months ago said I don't really consider myself a part of hip hop culture anymore I've been rethinking that recently, and hip hop has been the cornerstone to more or less everything I do - it's the MTV version of hip hop that's polluting the ideals of it that makes things cloudy. That and racists, too, that create strawman arguments about the culture. Also there are a lot of thick people in hip hop just as there are in any other society, which can sometimes fuzzy up the whole shebang. It's all very confusing really. I think i've gone a bit off topic too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Perhaps further to this the reason you're getting annoyed Steve is because people are calling themselves hip hop DJs when in fact what they're doing is using very basic dance music techniques to mix tunes that are put in the hip hop category in iTunes together. That's definitely partly right mate, but it's not just happening in cases where the genre is a bit of a grey area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 this thread is slightly shifting off topic as the cdj is clearly capable of a lot more than just auto sync. I can imagine it being great for the djs in the videos who are actually doing alot of work, but at the same time it is a shame if people are skipping beat matching. Having said that, how many beginners are buying 2000nexus cdjs? i'll say this tho, when i mix i generally get a little lazy and look at my serato screen to make sure everything is ok before i start mixing across. i think everyone does. but the other night i did a vinyl only mix, and i found it really refreshing being able to beat match. i was abit surprised i could still do it to be honest. but i think just spending time mixing, on serato or whatever helped with that as my brain is just used to it and has just come to expect a visual aid, but take the visuals away, the ears and brain still knew what to do. at the end of the day beat matching is a skill and its a good one to have, like mentioned. and imo its rewarding. but like i said the cdj nexus is not aimed (or least i hope not) at people who have skipped learning beat matching and just want to dj. its still a fucking good bit of kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Auto-sync is just one of the things that attracts a certain type of wannabe DJ to a product, but it's the reason why people are now posting up mixes within the first week of owning their first setup. People who can't tell that their phrase matching is off posting up shite mixes just because the beatmatching and levels are good because the software has done it for them. There's good reasons to learn to beatmatch manually: - 1. You can mix on any gear, cos you might not always get to use your own at a gig.2. You can mix with other DJs easily.3. You may find it more rewarding and actually fun, which in turn gives you a bit of a spark to learn other stuff. A person that buys gear and skips learning some of the basic, core skills is highly unlikely to be doing so because "it gives them more time to be creative". They're doing it because they want to take the fastest route to posting up mixes and trying to get gigs. Advocating skipping learning beatmatching - which your site is doing - is like advocating kids skipping learning their times tables because they can do it with a calculator. On DJ Forums I will try and coax people into learning manual beatmatching first, because once they have it down it's a skill they'll always have, even if they then switch to using auto-sync. Your article says that beatmatching is "an easily learnable process" and that's the argument I hear some n00b DJs using for why they don't learn it - "it's so easy, I might as well skip it" - but that makes no sense to me at all. I think the opposite way - if it's so easy, you might as well learn it.Auto-sync is just one of the things that attracts a certain type of wannabe DJ to a product, but it's the reason why people are now posting up mixes within the first week of owning their first setup. People who can't tell that their phrase matching is off posting up shite mixes just because the beatmatching and levels are good because the software has done it for them.You just rather proved my point that the sync button doesn't make people into a DJ overnight. Everything that's wrong in new mixes is not down to the sync button - they've just thrown tracks together, beatmatched them thinking that's enough and then screwed everything up because the mix, the EQ, the effects, the track selection is all wrong. That's not the sync button's fault. And manually beatmatching that mix would not make it any better, most probably worse in fact. Sync adjusts BPMs to match, and if you're lucky lock them on beat - the rest is down to the DJ. Your calculator analogy is slightly flawed. You cannot use a calculator without first understanding maths. You cannot use a typewriter without being able to read or write. But you can beatmatch 2 tracks by pressing a button. The complexities of maths and language are somewhat greater than moving a pitch fader too. Kids know that to lock beats, they have to use pitch to adjust the speeds. But there's a button for that, making beatmatching redundant to them - they have no need for it. But you'll always need to know how to read, write and do sums before using modern tools to make it easier. And you'll always need to learn the much bigger craft of mixing to be a good DJ.I never said don't learn beatmatching. It's just in the digital age, it's something that has a lot less relevance. At the noob end, the vast majority of kids will be spinning heavily quantised digital tunes, where the beat is most likely fixed from beginning to end. This is why sync is nothing more than a time saver to them. For those spinning older music... well they'll have to do it manually, and the sync button is an unused feature. But should we deny it just to make life harder for new DJs? Should we expect them to do something that has no relevance to them? Sync or not - they all still have to learn the other 99% of what DJing is all about, but that isn't what beatmatching is. I just don't get the selective hatred when DJs are using a plethora of tools designed to make their life easier or just to do things that couldn't be done before. BPM counter? I'm sure that like me you've sat with a deck, a pad and pen and a stopwatch. Do I advocate kids manually measuring over using the software? Never. And key measurement - my ears were the guide as to whether something worked or not. But somehow software gets a pass because harmonic mixing is just easier and gets better results. These are fundamental skills too, so how do they differ from sync? I struggle to rationalise how people can honestly think that the sync button is the all encompassing skill of a DJ, as if the crowd are euphoric because of the skilful way that the DJ has moved the pitch control to lock 2 beats together. The sync button doesn't wipe out the years of music buying, practice and legwork that goes into being a great DJ. The sync button doesn't fill a floor or make your mixes amazing. The sync button does just one thing - the rest still has to be learned. You cannot be a good DJ without all the other skills. The sync button does not make you a good or bad DJ. That's down to skills. I'm done on the subject. I will never be swayed from my opinion, and most likely those who oppose it won't either. So I'm off to do something more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Everything that's wrong in new mixes is not down to the sync button - they've just thrown tracks together, beatmatched them thinking that's enough and then screwed everything up because the mix, the EQ, the effects, the track selection is all wrong. That's not the sync button's fault. No auto-sync = that mix wouldn't even exist and neither would half the clowns that are calling themselves DJs these days. We'd all be better off. Well, you wouldn't I suppose. If you think that a DJ that can't even be arsed to learn the basics is skipping a fundamental DJ skill cos they can be "more creative" then you should perhaps start listening to the mixes that are actually getting posted up on DJ sites, cos outside of the tiny minority of people that are using newer DJ equipment to do crazy shit - and it really is a tiny, tiny minority - the standard has never been lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I feel that your point comes back to the wider culture and societal issues I mentioned earlier. It's never been easier to be a DJ, and to get your stuff out there. DJs have always been shit but that doesn't stem from sync, nor does reliance on sync excuse a bad mix or create a good one. Right now we have a mass of fresh blood - way more than ever before and they're all posting their amazeballs stuff up online for all to see. Some will never improve because beyond the sync button, they will never "get" DJing. The future however holds masses of good DJs who have learned the craft beyond locking beats. Skills will rise to the top. So while we're going to have to put up with a lot more lower quality stuff, the future looks a lot brighter. There will be a wealth of good DJs in a few years, proportionally more than ever before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Your post reminds me of people that said "hip-hop will just get better and better!" back in the day. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but while I think you're gonna be wrong, I hope I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I do see parallels with Hip Hop and Djing, especially the commercialisation of it. Time will tell if DJing goes down the same commercial route, where some kid with a few gimmicks gets picked up and becomes the DJ equivalent of Souljah Boy or Justin Beiber. I feel that what we're seeing is a different thing though. Technology has impacted across all walks of life. Everyone is a journalist or a photographer because of the internet, DSLRs and now smartphones. And the previous generation gets up in arms about them not learning the craft or going to university etc. There is more stuff to wade through than ever, and its growing exponentially. I think this is happening to DJing right now - I've seen it happen so many times before, and you just cannot stop it. But cream always rises to the top, and in the sea of dross, the good stuff still gets noticed more. It's an interesting time to be a DJ. So much cool stuff to play with and so much music too. Knowing the attention span of people these days though, perhaps DJing will become passé in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 But cream always rises to the top, and in the sea of dross, the good stuff still gets noticed more. It doesn't though really. It might do on here, cos we're all DJs and massive music heads ourselves, but generally speaking? No chance. The more crap there is, the harder it is to find the good stuff and there is WAY more crap than there ever has been before. I'd say that Pauly D is already the DJ equivalent of Bieber. Dood was the 7th highest paid DJ in the world last year and earned 11 million dollars. Cream rising to the top? Look at the rest of the list as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxdestroyer Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 In my opinion hiphop went down the drain from 97 when all the jiggy nonsense became world wide accepted by the masses. The masses dictate what we listen to on the radio. The majority of DJs gotta play what the program director tells them to play. Its all about the money and i understand that cause nobody wants to be poor. But its not making me happy. The undergrouind never died but it became even more underground and to be honest the underground used to be better. I don't hear much originality anymore. Specificly in hiphop and dance music. Few exeptions. As far as DJing goes, Sync or not most of them gotta play what the people wanna hear or else they will be out of a job. The club and radio owners hire the DJ to entertain the crowd and not make them wanna leave. And the crowd concists mostly of young people who don't understand much about real DJing, they dont care as long as they are entertained by popular music. Im talking about the masses. Not the selected people who have a genuine interest in good music and art. On the Sync button aspect. i compare it with using a drumcomputer vs a real drummer. A real drummer is a craftsman vs a kid using beat software is an amateur. You simply cannot say that the kid using the software and never practiced on a drumset that he is a drummer. Nor can You say that the kid who doesn't know how to beatmatch turntables is a DJ. He's just a wanabe DJ but NOT a real DJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 There will be a wealth of good DJs in a few years, proportionally more than ever before. In my opinion this wealth of good DJs has unfortunately severely declined, even with the technological advances of the last decade. Unless you're really really good and work tonnes and tonnes at networking, it's producers who get all the DJ gigs rather than DJs these days and the cream of the crop DJs are stuck doing warm up slots for next to no money, if they're lucky, unless they are in a position where they also own a established record label within their scene or are dating someone famous. I've been very very fortunate that I've been allowed to transcend into getting bookings purely based on my DJ ability but I don't know very many other people who don't own labels or radio shows (it's mainly producers who get these now too) etc who do the same. People know production gets you gigs now and there seems to be a pretty much universal ethos that you can get away without learning many DJing skills even at a high level, so people spend all their time producing and very little time learning DJ craft. That's not saying DJing should be technical, but you won't see much more complicated in your average DJ set than selectors quick mixing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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