Fuck Battling

[Gizmo]

Let me throw this out there.

 

Turntablism focusses way too much on the battle scene.

 

How about we refocus on the musicianship and showcase more performers instead.

 

Creativity and great performance shouldn't be about winning or losing.

 

Discuss.

[djfoly]

thats the only way!

[Steve]

Turntablism only focuses so much on the battle scene because the turntable music scene is tiny and even fewer people give a fuck about that IMO. I've posted up audio and video of stuff that I think is good on DJ Forums and generally the attitude is "I don't give a shit if it's made using turntables".

 

I like battles, but most of them aren't handled well (although I'm not saying it's easy to run a battle) and I'm not a fan of the "Euro style" as there seems to be lots of DJ trying to emulate people like Rafik, Unkut and Netik.

 

Go back a few years when there were only a couple of busy scratch-related forums and people were always posting up practice files and calling people out for a laugh. Then people moved on to dabbling with making little compositions using turntables and posting those up. Where's all that gone? What scene there is is spread far too thinly across various places, and there's not many youngsters coming up that are getting into this stuff.

[djfoly]

good points Steve. It is a dwindling scene!

[doppelkorn]

there's not many youngsters coming up that are getting into this stuff.

 

And here, in my opinion, is why:

 

The appeal of turntablism in the 90s was that it allowed you the ability, realitvely chepaly, to emulate the effects of chopping up and manipulating sounds just like your favourite DJs. There's an interview with Grand Wizard Theodore about his fave scratches where he specifically gives the appeal of several of them as "sounding like a sampler" or synth or whatever. Nowadays the novelty of being able to recreate those sounds has gone with the cost of the associated hardware (and latterly software) being reduced and in some cases elimnated thanks to illegal warez downloads.

 

The reason people say "I don't give a shit if it's made with turntables" is becasue you can more easily mess with sound using other gear nowadays.

 

This is not so much about battling but about the general lack of interest in turntablism as a whole.

[djdiggla]

Turntablism only focuses so much on the battle scene because the turntable music scene is tiny and even fewer people give a fuck about that IMO.

 

Exactly. Barely anyone even scratches. Really the battle scene is the only think keeping it alive in any way publicly.

[djfoly]

there's not many youngsters coming up that are getting into this stuff.

 

And here, in my opinion, is why:

 

The appeal of turntablism in the 90s was that it allowed you the ability, realitvely chepaly, to emulate the effects of chopping up and manipulating sounds just like your favourite DJs. There's an interview with Grand Wizard Theodore about his fave scratches where he specifically gives the appeal of several of them as "sounding like a sampler" or synth or whatever. Nowadays the novelty of being able to recreate those sounds has gone with the cost of the associated hardware (and latterly software) being reduced and in some cases elimnated thanks to illegal warez downloads.

 

The reason people say "I don't give a shit if it's made with turntables" is becasue you can more easily mess with sound using other gear nowadays.

 

This is not so much about battling but about the general lack of interest in turntablism as a whole.

 

this is why I think scratching is way more important than juggling. There are people really pushing this side of it!

[Vekked]

Let me throw this out there.

 

Turntablism focusses way too much on the battle scene.

 

How about we refocus on the musicianship and showcase more performers instead.

 

Creativity and great performance shouldn't be about winning or losing.

 

Discuss.

 

Turntablism should embrace all forms/outlets because attempting to shun one aspect of the culture in favour of another seems like a terrible thing to do when we're essentially all doing the same things, in different ways. It's all music made with turntables. I think that an alternative that would be almost certainly a million times better would be to unite all aspects of it and not look down upon any aspect. If you don't like battling, you don't have to battle, but it doesn't mean no one should. It's not like there isn't room for both worlds right about now being as the art is not exactly prospering.

 

I think the dichotomy between turntablism and battling, and turntablism and music, is part of what has caused such a plateau/stagnation in the artform. People making music with turntables think battling's dumb, and people battling don't think of it as making music. Battling has produced some of the most technically sound turntablists on the planet, only to have them completely abandon it when they're done battling. I've even heard some sick battle DJs say it was a waste of time because they're producers now and they could have just been producing all the time instead of making funny sounds.

 

I feel like a lot of battle DJs don't realize the life after battling, and don't see that it always was/is/has been about music, and that you can take those skills and put them on tracks. So here we have one school of turntablists not seeing the value in the other school, and vise-versa, both not realizing that they ARE THE SAME THING. SEE: JIMMY THE PENGUIN. HE GETS IT.

[jimmy penguin]

yeah, this was the point of the skratch games, get people together to do routines, mixes, musical showcases and general tomfoolery all in one place at the same time, but we have a freestyle battle as part so anyone can take part and we all eat the prize afterwards! its great.

 

the other reason we started it was because when the battles stopped here in 2005/2006 we never saw each other anymore so we needed an excuse for us to get together with other great dj's such as djackulate and moschops, tu-ki, gem, savwar, mek etc.

its the only turntable music event in ireland now! and most of our crowd are usually there to see something differant and have fun, not to nerd out on a load of scratching, and thats great..

 

i remember producers coming to galway years ago and saying wow we had a great gig tonight because no one was up pestering us about what gear we were using etc, and its the same with scratching sometimes, everyone nerding out is great, but people need to start appreciating what sounds nice overall in all aspects of turntable music if its going to go anywhere! and to properly do that we need to forget about restrictions sometimes and just listen! do what sounds nice to you!

 

people used to say to me, get a controller for your cue points, there was nothing wrong with what i was doing but that was what they focused on!

 

mynameisjohn has a track on the last compilation, he did his thesis on turntable music and vmm performed his end of year performance, he got a distinction or an honour or whatever ya call it, called content of tables.

anyway! turntable music as a concept has existed for over one hundred years now and even the end of technics isn't gonna stop that, never mind the end of dmc/ida

[Wax On]

I think in terms of turntablism, you get too many people who think that scratching one violin line or whatever counts as musical because they're cutting a pitched instrument - its a totally different thing to cutting in a musical way. there are some guys who are very musical about the approach, ie jimmy and the crew, mr brown etc, but it maybe doesn't get appreciated so much because of all the bland shite.

[jimmy penguin]

giz are you gonna put on such an event!?!? we're there in a flash!

[Guest loop skywalker]

i only battle because its the only way i ever get to perform out<love the community scratch games concept but sadly havent attended one yet due to always being at cunting work.

IDA did something brilliant by introducing the showcase/experimental catagory...its a shame that even has to get judged as its all about performing music on the fly with whatever you can.

 

I dont think ive been to a battle and been able to watch it from beggining to end in years..probably the late 90s......now i just go for the social side and to get to perform is a bonus.

 

Watching Jimmy and others has really changed my mind about all this turntable mallarchy for the better....they are out and out musicians that can cleverly put turntables to good use and its nice to just listen too as well.

 

I guess the battle scene really is coming to an end...but turntable based music will be around for a long time yet....i still hope IDA can continue to eveolve as they have done in the past....i noticed some of the countries even had beat production battles...this is deffo the way forward.

[Guest loop skywalker]

just remembered i wanted to comment about the good old days when peeps used to fuck about calling each other out on the net..posting files etc....that was really good fun to do..but i think the pioneers of that era have all grown up,got jobs and kids and have no time for that kind of thing anymore...but i wished they had....goood times!

[djdiggla]

I would love to go to Scratch Games... sounds dope.

 

Turntablism should embrace all forms/outlets because attempting to shun one aspect of the culture in favour of another

Good call.

 

Like I said, battling is all thats really keeping turntablism alive. I think most battles are unfortunate b/c really good people get cut based on the judge's opinion (or worse friendships with certain DJs). But it's really the only thing in the public eye. Like Steve said, people don't care if it's made with a turntable or not--just if it sounds good. And I kinda agree--It's a lot cooler if it's done on turntables, but if something sounds better it just sounds better. Also technology has made turntables and a mixer both dated and expensive. For the same price you can get a fuckload more "controllerism" gear and do much more in much less space. It's just the sad truth. And the reward for having turntables is low. People either think (1) you are their personal iPod or (2) they can do it better than you. And scratching and mixing is a lot harder--you could practice forever and not make much advancement in comparison to using Ableton where (IMO) you get more proportional return for the time you put in.

[Gizmo]

I'm not talking about shunning battling, but simply shifting the focus to the diverse range of performers instead.

 

The Scratch Games illustrates perfectly how a diverse range of artists can come together and do whatever they want under the umbrella of turntablism, without having to feel that they are arbitrarily "better" than the next man.

 

Sadly, I feel battling pushes people down a route that demands a standard set of techniques to be demonstrated, as well as a certain sound. It's only when you remove the walls of battling that people do things that you'd never even bother doing in a competition.

 

Would I go to a battle now? Probably not. But would I go to a gig that featured a range of styles showcasing all of turntablism in a no holds barred setting without the dark cloud of competition? Most likely yes.

[jimmy penguin]

I'm not talking about shunning battling, but simply shifting the focus to the diverse range of performers instead.

Would I go to a battle now? Probably not. But would I go to a gig that featured a range of styles showcasing all of turntablism in a no holds barred setting without the dark cloud of competition? Most likely yes.

 

that says it all really!

[Vekked]

I'm not talking about shunning battling, but simply shifting the focus to the diverse range of performers instead.

 

I mean... "Fuck Battling"?

 

The Scratch Games illustrates perfectly how a diverse range of artists can come together and do whatever they want under the umbrella of turntablism, without having to feel that they are arbitrarily "better" than the next man.

 

Yes, and that's awesome. I think it's also awesome to have a battle if people bring dope stuff to the table.

 

Sadly, I feel battling pushes people down a route that demands a standard set of techniques to be demonstrated, as well as a certain sound. It's only when you remove the walls of battling that people do things that you'd never even bother doing in a competition.

 

I think this is an illusion. A lot of people think battling is wack lately because of battles and the nature of them, but I think it's just the DJs themselves battling, not the format. Battling DOESN'T put people down a route of certain styles or techniques, they just choose to do that. Look at Shiftee, maybe not everyone liked his style, but he came with heat in 09. The reason he did is because he's put in yeeears battling and practicing, the guy beat I-Emerge for the NY title back in 2003 when he was 17. 90% of the DJs battling just aren't putting in the work it takes to be good these days.

 

Would I go to a battle now? Probably not. But would I go to a gig that featured a range of styles showcasing all of turntablism in a no holds barred setting without the dark cloud of competition? Most likely yes.

 

Would I go to a battle now? Yes. Would I go to a gig that featured a range of styles showcasing all of turntablism in a no holds barred setting without the dark cloud of competition? Yes. Do I get to though? No, because nothing like that happens in Canada anymore.

 

Being that way has made me appreciate all of it a lot more. I think it's a huge waste of time to try and create a separation in a scene that it's so tiny as a whole in the first place. There's room for both competition and straight music to exist and prosper and help each other. Have battles with turntablists making music before/during/after. Bring it all together and try and make it stronger, or risk just not having anything to go to at all.

[Vekked]

Basically I think this kind of negative B.S. is unnecessary and doesn't help anything at all, just my opinion.

[djdiggla]

I'm not talking about shunning battling, but simply shifting the focus to the diverse range of performers instead.

 

I mean... "Fuck Battling"?

flol

 

 

Would I go to a battle now? Yes. Would I go to a gig that featured a range of styles showcasing all of turntablism in a no holds barred setting without the dark cloud of competition? Yes.

 

Me too.

[Steve]

I wouldn't go to either. Would I go to a local nightclub where the music is wank, but I can ogle at teenage girls in dresses that are too small for them? Yes.

[Vekked]

I wouldn't go to either. Would I go to a local nightclub where the music is wank, but I can ogle at teenage girls in dresses that are too small for them? Yes.

 

LOLLL, yus,

[johnny 1 move]

Fuck moaning on t'interweb!

[Jon]

Fuck moaning on t'interweb!

[doppelkorn]

But anonymously criticising famous, popular and talented DJs makes me a better DJ!

[jimmy penguin]

well i think originally the post was just to get people talking not arguing but everyones got some fair points, so, lets listen to some d-styles...