Guest petesasqwax Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 What's really stopping anyone being able to make it possible to run some kind of very basic DVS from an iPhone? It could utilise existing timecode vinyl (which isn't that difficult to cut down to size) and something like a Raiden for the fader.Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kebzer Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I guess the real problem will be the audio interface. All current iOS/Android apps are not running DVS signal, only the software/controller part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 As far as I can work it out, though - what would stop them? If you were looking to only do it on a single channel it wouldn't need anything more than a line in/out which has been already covered by things like the Line6 interface etc. Then it's just a question of using the software to interpret the timecode signal, isnt' it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 i know serato wants 2 GB of ram - my phone has nearly 1GB..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rasteri Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 There already are apps for the iphone that provide DVS, I don't know what they're called or how well they work. I did think about porting xwax to android but I really don't have the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I know the main obstacle for Android stuff has historically been the capability of the audio processors (i.e. that they're non-standard and therefore much of them are simply not up to low-latency audio processing).In theory, could you run DVS from a Raspberry Pi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rasteri Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I know the main obstacle for Android stuff has historically been the capability of the audio processors (i.e. that they're non-standard and therefore much of them are simply not up to low-latency audio processing). Fraid that's an urban legend, the obstacle for android is that nobody can be arsed coding for it when every muso has an iphone. The low-level USB stuff on android is actually much better written/easier to program for than the iphone stuff.  In theory, could you run DVS from a Raspberry Pi? I have done - xwax runs just fine on it. You can get latency down to tiny amounts, much less than serato/traktor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 In theory, could you run DVS from a Raspberry Pi?I have done - xwax runs just fine on it. You can get latency down to tiny amounts, much less than serato/traktor. Oh, man, that's fucking amazing! What's the best place to talk in more detail without boring the tits of people on here, Andy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 That's crazy shit about Android btw - I bought that explanation of it without even giving it a thought. I feel absurdly fucking gullible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frost Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Is DV about to invent its own DVS? I hope so! I'll give you a tenner to get started. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Basically, for a very very long time I've had the intention to create a completely portable integrated DVS system. There are a great many different iterations of it, from proof of concept demo units through to fully customised software with multi-track capabilities etc. but up until recently it has only existed on scraps of paper and in animated conversations with scratch nerds. Recently - to be honest, since the appearance of the portable scratch setups - I have started to feel that it has reached the point where it's not only possible to make it happen, but I actually know everyone with the skills to help make it a reality. It's not so much a case of putting together funds in order for somebody to make it possible, but rather pooling knowledge so that it's possible to make it a reality for everyone to do themselves. The only thing people would need is the components which could be essentially put together as a kit or even just a shopping list and set of instructions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rasteri Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Oh, man, that's fucking amazing! What's the best place to talk in more detail without boring the tits of people on here, Andy? Why not just discuss it here? That way other techy-minded people can benefit from the discussion in future. When I'm trying to figure stuff out I love reading through endless discussion threads on forums. Unless it's something you expressly don't want to discuss in public. (Also I figure as long as the SJW thread has more pages than this then it's fair game ). Interestingly enough me and a mate started a project to have a tiny standalone DVS system, we were gunna call it the "WeeVS"... the project kinda petered out, but this was before the raspi even existed so it'd be a lot easier to implement now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'd like a WeeVS system and I'd like to read some nerdy shit right here about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Hehe - that's exactly what I thought as soon as Frost commented so that's what I started doing I figure if there's at you, me and at least 1 other person interested in it then it's worth discussing openlyWhen I first came up with this idea, I was going to use a turntable platter with no tonearm and it would use the Tascam TTM-1 connected to a Vestax CDJ unit. I was going to take a flight case and build it all into that so that it could be a portable preDVS DVS system. I worked out various ways of doing it (including mounting the TTM-1 underneath the platter so that it was safely out of the way and all you had on top of the unti was the platter, on/off switch, 33/45 buttons and pitch sliderThen DVS came along and I wanted it, but didn't want to spend the hundreds on Final Scratch (which was the thing at the time) and then even more on a laptop... so I canned the idea. Until Adion DJDecks.be. When DJ Decks came out I bought a Final Scratch control record and, using my existing soundcard, a spare mixer and pre-amp, I managed to get DVS working without a Final Scratch box etc. I started thinking about the flight case all in one idea again, but this time, instead of using the TTM-1 and a CDJ, I would use a PC which would be built into the flight case underneath the turntable (along with pre-amps etc.) and the turntable would then be used with a control vinyl.The company I worked for had just created one of the first all in one touch screen units and my idea was to piggy-back on their development work in order to use a touch screen for the PC. Various things happened included the company I worked for being bought out by a massive conglomerate which then swallowed it all up and closed it down. I was redundant and broke as fuck - surprisingly, the idea got put on the back burner for a long time.Recently I've been thinking about it all over again and it seems like the time could be right to make it an actual possiblity now.I'm not interested in trying to use it to make money (I know, I'd make a shit Yogafrog ) but rather I want to make it something that is within financial reach of all the fellow nerds who would appreciate it. As a result, using something open source (like linux and xwax, for example) makes the most sense - and making it an open source project in itself seems like the right thing to do too.A raspberry Pi is, what, £30? A 7 inch capacative touch screen for it is roughly £40. If it can use something like an M-Audio Conectiv or a Maya 44 or whatever (I say Conectiv because they're supercheap now that nobody wants them, but they're still really handy in terms of being DVS-ready... and also I already have one kicking around) then all I'm really talking about initially is combining the components of a turntable (say a battered old PDX-2000 - simply because it's obviously ultrapitch and they seem to be relatively plentiful) with a basic soundcard (e.g. Conectiv) and Raspberry Pi with touch screen into a single housing (which I've already spoken to Ric about and he's 100% into creating).I've got lots of ideas for future developments, too, but I don't know if there's any point in going down that route yet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 yes - do it! I was dreaming up a portable turntable that was actually good, and to make it a proper product it could have some sort of computerized element. first i thought 'why not stick a loop pedal/delay unit in there?' as that has a lot of applications for a 1-turntable setup, but its 2015 - a touch screen computer is blatantly the way to go, and you sacrifice 3-4 tactile controls like pots and faders for infinitely more controls on a multi use screen...... or a screen with a couple of pots and faders/buttons around it? anyway the 'ultimate portable' deck that was advertised around DMC still looks like a plastic deck. I'd say get something that actually gives todays decks a run for their money, has a built in DVS, and is portable..... but thats probably way too much money already...... but basically a metal/dense plastic turntable, proper tone arm, interchangeable headshell, and where the speaker is on a vestax.pt-01 put a computer/touchscreen. i have some shitty drawings on an envelope somewhere.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 This is the thing, Si - the whole point of doing it this way would be to make it as cost effective as possible. I've no idea at this stage how easy it would be to base it on the PT01 sized platte, but with a direct drive motor and proper tonearm fitted instead, but that would be the ideal ultimately as the 7" format is far more suited to portability. I've spoken to Ric about it loads and it would be really straight forward to make a proper enclosure for it all on the same way as he's made the cradle foe the Raiden faders. In theory, it could build on what Andy already came up with for the PT01 circuit board and the introduction of a proper fader to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rasteri Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Si - dunno if you were aware but years ago I built a digital scratch controller with a 7" capacitive touch platter (like the vestax VCIs). Gizmo was really into it and repped it on skratchworx but I just wasn't clever enough back then to finish properly. Some pics of it here : https://picasaweb.google.com/102144650734844150027/Scratchtroller- Maybe I'll restart the project again now the raspi exists to make everything much easier.  But yeah back on topic, using a USB soundcard with the raspi isn't the way I'd go. Better to use the raspi's I2C interface to directly connect an audio codec to the processor, that way you'd get the low latency I was talking about (less than a millisecond if coded properly). The hifiberry takes this approach - https://www.hifiberry.com/ Ideally someone needs to make an addon PCB like the hifiberry with a 4in/4out codec and builtin phono preamps. I could do it but I really don't have the time just now, perhaps later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 i suppose the extra space above where the raiden fader goes on rics enclosure could hold the gubbins we're talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I just feel that with great portablity comes great breakability, and in amazed how long everyones portable setups are lasting, seriously i expected way more broken faders and styluses and tonearms and records by now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 WTF - I didn't know about the Scratchtroller!Wow, I wasn't aware of the possibility of using an RP audio interface - that's even better! In terms of getting a basic setup working I was thinking of using what I had already and starting from that, but maybe it would be worth contacting the guys doing HiFiBerry about making a 4 phono version? No point reinventing something that already exists if you don't have the time to do it - unless somebody else does (Focus? Backtrack? etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rasteri Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Wow, I wasn't aware of the possibility of using an RP audio interface - that's even better! In terms of getting a basic setup working I was thinking of using what I had already and starting from that, but maybe it would be worth contacting the guys doing HiFiBerry about making a 4 phono version? No point reinventing something that already exists if you don't have the time to do it - unless somebody else does (Focus? Backtrack? etc.) Yeah at the end of the day everything presents itself to Linux using ALSA (possibly via JACK) so no code will need to be changed if you do decide to move to an I2S soundcard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ah, that's excellent. I've got to admit, I'm coming at this from a very enthusiastic novice perspective but I'm keen to do as much as I can myself. I work with computer hardware and software engineers so I can call upon their help of needed, but I think we have the skills between us to make this a definite reality. Where would I be best putting my efforts? Into the programming side of things? Electronics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 rasteri i've said it before and i'll say it again, youre a fuckin G for Genius! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rasteri Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Ah, that's excellent. I've got to admit, I'm coming at this from a very enthusiastic novice perspective but I'm keen to do as much as I can myself. I work with computer hardware and software engineers so I can call upon their help of needed, but I think we have the skills between us to make this a definite reality. Where would I be best putting my efforts? Into the programming side of things? Electronics? For this project programming is probably the skill you're aiming for, although between xwax and linux essentially all the coding has been done. I guess first step would be to install a linux distro like Debian in a VM and have a play with xwax and whatever USB soundcard you have lying around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Sounds like an excellent plan. I've got a couple of old laptops I was intending to install Linux on so they could be a good practice ground too, until I get the Raspberry Pi with the touch screen delivered, at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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