Dekorum Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) Hi all I have not scratched since about 2007 or so, when I had a Vestax PDX-2000 MKII table with a Shure M447 cart/needle set up. Before that I have had a couple of different 1200s with M447s and never have I had this problem before. I recently decided to try getting back into the scratching world and decided to get a Reloop RP-7000MKII (supposedly are completely up to par with Technics if not better) since I don't see a need for Serato at the moment. Since you can't find M447's anymore I decided to get a premounted Ortofon Qbert OM series. After setting the tonearm height, counterweight and anti-skating all correctly I am noticing that the needle has a hard time staying in the groove. For example, just doing a simple baby scratch for about 30 seconds makes the needle jump to the next or the previous groove. Fortunately, I am using a Superseal break record so it is not too noticeable except when it jumps back enough to finish the sample section. It seems that the needle is super flexible and sensitive... Is this standard with the Qbert OM series? I even tried the old school "flip the counter weight around and push it all the way against the tonearm" and all of that weight still does not make a big difference. Any suggestions? Not sure if the RP-7000 is just junk or what?.. almost seems like the tonearm is "too light", as I see that it wants to wobble on any simple scratch. FYI my setup from back in 2007 was a Pioneer DJM-707 and a PDX 2000 MKII (as said above), and I was pleasantly surprised to find a super affordable Rane TTM56 which is still as awesome as I heard it was back when it came out. Edited October 28, 2020 by Steve Fixed weird text colour issue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Is there much side-to-side movement of the headshell when you move the record back and forth? Is there much play in the tonearm if you grab hold of it and move it around? It should move around freely without binding, but not feel like it's loose where it connects to the tonearm base. I'm just wondering if the bearings are loose. Is the turntable set up on a sturdy, flat surface? I know you're not new to this shit, but it's worth mentioning these things anyway, just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekorum Posted October 29, 2020 Author Share Posted October 29, 2020 Hi Steve, I remember your name from when I used to post here back in 05/06. When grabbing the tonearm, it does not feel too loose at the base.. it does move freely without binding. Keep in mind this is a BRAND NEW Reloop table. Indeed it is set up on a sturdy, flat surface, let alone the 4 bulky shock absorbing feet that the Reloop's have. I do, however, notice that the headshell does seem to move side to side a little bit too much when moving the record. I tried to get a video of this. Allow me to try upload it somewhere and paste the link later today. Keep in mind, I did not adjust the premounted cartridge. I believe it is supposed to come by default fully adjusted and properly tightened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Is the hole in the centre of the record too big or slightly off-centre? If it's not that, then I really don't know what to suggest. Maybe those Qbert needles are no good? I've never used them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekorum Posted October 29, 2020 Author Share Posted October 29, 2020 Nope, this is the case on a couple of brand new vinyl... normal spindle hole size. Are these Qbert needles really trash?? It was not cheap.... any other alternatives to an M447 for scratching? Only once in the video (at 16 seconds) you can hear the needle skipped to the next or previous groove (notice the popping noise). It did not do it all too much this time, but you can see that the headshell is moving a bit more than I remember my M447s moving back in the day. Uploaded the video here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Do you any real life friends who DJ? If so, try one of their headshells/carts on your deck. It's got to be either an issue with the tonearm, or that Qbert cart/stylus sucks. There is a quite a bit of unwanted movement when you move the record back and forth, but if the tonearm doesn't feel loose, I don't know to suggest regarding that, other than returning the turntable and trying another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekorum Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 Unfortunately, I do not know anyone who DJs in real life. I can try to order another headshell/cart setup though. I guess I can't tell if the tonearm feels too loose or just right. Any recommended headshell/cart set ups that you could still buy brand new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I rarely turn my decks on so I'm still using M44-7s. When they wear out, I don't know what I'd replace them with. I've heard decent things about the Ortofon Scratch carts and the Jico M44-7 clones, although there are various versions of the latter and I don't know which are the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Burglar Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I know the records are new, but did you put paper in the spindle hole to make sure they are tight in the spindle? Also, you might need to "break in" the needle. Letting it sit on a record while not in use can help with that process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekorum Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 I've never needed to put a piece of paper in the spindle hole before, so I am reluctant to think that is the issue here. It feels tight to me already. Breaking in the needle is an interesting idea.. I did simply use the needle for playback for about a month before starting to scratch (maybe 15 hours of playback or so). I thought that would be good enough. Has anyone here used the Qbert Ortofon needle? https://www.amazon.com/Ortofon-Q-Bert-pre-mounted-Black-headshell/dp/B07HTR3JBT I am thinking of returning it if it really is the needle's fault. @Steve, I wish I still had my M44-7s. Any chance you have a spare one that you would sell me? I read about the Jico clones and decided to get the Qbert OM instead. I know that the premounted OM series with headshells perform better than the Concorde series. Are you referring to the Scratch OM series or the Concordes? (OM series or concorde) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekorum Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 At this point, I can't really tell if the tonearm is loose in a bad way or a loose/free in a good way. I'm a bit stumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekorum Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 I just played around a little by examining what exactly seems to be moving, and I took the headshell/cart off of the tonearm to notice that the cart is super tightly mounted on the headshell (which is good)... but I noticed that the tonearm connection to the headshell seems to be the issue. I don't remember if I could move the headshell this much side to side. I tried to get a video for you to see what I mean. I think this means that I need to try to return this deck.... do I get another RP-7000MKII or not even another Reloop? Or should I be taking off that black rubber washer? Edit: Took of the black rubber washer and it feels the same. Rewatching my other video I actually see the tonearm moving left and right a bit too much. It must be the tonearm itself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Dekorum said: @Steve, I wish I still had my M44-7s. Any chance you have a spare one that you would sell me? I don't mate, sorry. I only have the 2 that are hooked up to my decks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekorum Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 No worries, Steve. I decided to give Ortofon customer support a call and it was super helpful! He said there are low chance of defects in the Qbert OM or the Reloop deck, and recommended a few things which seem to have solved the problem. #1 was actually cleaning the needle... apparently when breaking in a new needle you need to do more cleaning as even playing brand new vinyl (in the playback break-in period) will cause some microscopic gunk to build up on the diamond tip. Also, the weight plate between the cart and the headshell is mainly installed for 1200s users as the 1200 tonearm has a lower effective mass than the Reloop. Removing the weight and then rebalancing with the same tracking force will end up moving my counterweight closer to the pivot point. Also, the black rubber washer on the headshell connector is not needed but it is supposed to be left on to effectively make a tighter seal (did not notice a difference with or without it). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Good shit man! Hopefully things are all good from now on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrblast Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I have had exactly this same problem (think I posted about it on here before), after taking a 15 year break also. I have the ortofon scratch carts on brand new reloop 8000s. I thought it was the needles so managed to get some m447s and swapped them in. Same problem - tone arm keeps moving left to right. I tried realigning, rebalancing and changing the angle of the headshell. The latter seemed to work to a degree but it looks very unnatural now and it's probably wrecking my vinyl. Really not sure what to do. Will try removing the weight plates and rebalancing as youve mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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