μm Tracking force technical question

[djdiggla]

So I'm trying to compare the tracking ability of the Ortofon Scratch and the Ortofon Qbert.

 

Ortofon is measuring this in μm (micrometres). The scratch is 80μm and the Qbert is 980μm. (As an aside, the only Ortos I have experience with are the S-120s and those are 120μm)

 

My question is, wouldn't the lower number be the one with better tracking? If so then the Scratch would be the better needle for holding the groove. HALP.

 

Also how weird that the S-120 is better than one of those.

[djdiggla]

Think I finally found the answer and higher is better.

[Steve]

What is "tracking ability" anyway? How is it calculated?

 

I understand tracking force, but not tracking ability.

[Vekked]

in my anecdotal experience of using Ortofons for 3 years, I found the Scratch to be better. The tip of the Q-bert stylus kept snapping off for me. Like not the entire styles, just the diamond (?) that sits in the groove. I went through 3 the same way. I saw a video on K-Swizz instagram a couple weeks ago that had the same problem too. At first glance they look fine, but when you put them on the record they just slide, and if you look closely the tip is gone... So just a word of warning.

That said, I love the sound of the Ortofons, I could just never get them set up *quite* as good as the Shures and I went through them twice as fast. If I had the funds, I would want to try more of their styluses and see how much the performance differs. But yea, I switched from Q-bert to Scratch and was pretty happy back when I used them. I always used the q-bert bodies, just the pink stylus.

[Guest It'sPhilFromThursdays]

^ I''ve alway found the pink ones seem to burn the record faster, plus i or lots of people i've knwn have had what you've described where the needle fall out the hole happen with loads different types of Ortofizzles including the scratch ones so i think it's just a vulnerability with them. A plus side is you can needle scratch on the record with the busted stylus and do much less damage.

[djdiggla]

What is "tracking ability" anyway? How is it calculated?

 

I understand tracking force, but not tracking ability.

It's weird huh, and that's what led to my question... it's measured in micrometers so you would think that the smaller number would be better--essentially the less mass needed to hold the needle to grove the better... but apparently it's the opposite. So I don't have any idea why it's calculated that way or even why micrometers would be the form of measure. Sure doesn't have a comparable measurable just tracking weight (which Ortofon also reports separately). The other weird thing is the Scratch and Electro are 80μm which is supposedly very good. But the S-120 is supposed off the charts then with a 120μm! But my experience is those suck. So then the Qberts are 980μm!!! Is that a fucking typo?!?!? 100x tracking force of your Scratch model!?!?! Where's Yogafrog to explain this?

 

 

in my anecdotal experience of using Ortofons for 3 years, I found the Scratch to be better. The tip of the Q-bert stylus kept snapping off for me. Like not the entire styles, just the diamond (?) that sits in the groove. I went through 3 the same way. I saw a video on K-Swizz instagram a couple weeks ago that had the same problem too. At first glance they look fine, but when you put them on the record they just slide, and if you look closely the tip is gone... So just a word of warning.

 

That said, I love the sound of the Ortofons, I could just never get them set up *quite* as good as the Shures and I went through them twice as fast. If I had the funds, I would want to try more of their styluses and see how much the performance differs. But yea, I switched from Q-bert to Scratch and was pretty happy back when I used them. I always used the q-bert bodies, just the pink stylus.

Fuck, I literally just ordered one of the Qberts but it's for a single TT since I didn't want to commit to a proper pair until I'd tried them out.

[Guest It'sPhilFromThursdays]

I wouldn't sweat it too much Dirk, i've got some, and whilst the needles they came with seemed to go a little funny on and off since i got some new stylus' they've gravy and i've been using them a few months now. Saying that they'll probably break now lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Obv. that's not great for them not to be supreme out the box new, esp for the price they are (though i did get a pair for like 105£ from that old German Germany before the pound tanked against the euro), but on balance i think they are pretty great and as (V)Ja(e)k(k)e(d) said a nice jump in sound quality. Plus like dude said you can always put another needle on them now you've got the cart.

[Chris]

At a complete uneducated guess, perhaps its a measurement of lateral motion it will handle?

[Dubba Dutchdj]

@dirk - what problems did you experience with S-120? Ive been using them since they came out, Im terms of combining all 3 in one stylus - sound quality, staying in the groove, low record wear... nothing else competes in my experience, incredible needles.

[Deft]

At a complete uneducated guess, perhaps its a measurement of lateral motion it will handle?

Yeah I reckon it is along that kind of line. The tracking "ability" is at a standard tracking force and frequency. So I'm guessing it's how far the stylus can move relative to the cartridge body or something before it skips.

[djdiggla]

@dirk - what problems did you experience with S-120? Ive been using them since they came out, Im terms of combining all 3 in one stylus - sound quality, staying in the groove, low record wear... nothing else competes in my experience, incredible needles.

Needle skipping. This was OM version BTW, not the concords. Maybe I didnt set them up right. Heard it can be tricky to setup Ortofons but once done they work perfectly. I tried to find my 120s to give it another try but looks like I sold them. Also had a little bit of trouble picking up the time code signal. Cant remember if that ended up being another issue or what.

 

@Dubba & Vekked - do yall use the concords or the OMs on headshells?

[djdiggla]

Side notedo you think thats a typo? 980 seems like a typo and its supposed to be 98 which would make the S-120 have the highest tracking.

[Dubba Dutchdj]

Currently I use concord carts but have had s-120 on OM carts, I dont remember any noticeable difference tbh.

 

One thing is certain with S-120 that if there under or over weighted they perform terribly and sound awful, even slightly over the suggested weight has a visual impact on the timcode scope - changes perfect circle to a squished angled egg shape.

 

Definitely not like Shure where you can bang on the weight if there getting skippy.

 

S-120 such a good all rounder, minimal record wear and designed for DVS use is what drew me towards em, jus not the greatest skip resistance on 1210, but there rock solid on Stanton 150 and decent enough on PDX

[Guest It'sPhilFromThursdays]

One thing is certain with S-120 that if there under or over weighted they perform terribly and sound awful, even slightly over the suggested weight has a visual impact on the timcode scope - changes perfect circle to a squished angled egg shape

I find this with the qbert ones, i seem to get better results with shures in terms of lovely round dv circles.

 

 

S-120 such a good all rounder, minimal record wear and designed for DVS use is what drew me towards em, jus not the greatest skip resistance on 1210, but there rock solid on Stanton 150 and decent enough on PDX

 

I completely forgot about these ones, yeah these are boss mode Dirkus. I can't find any atm either