Are DJ competitions obsolete?

[kebzer]

Following the cancellation of the scratch category and the clusterfuck of the US final, DMC has more great news: they are practically cancelling all sub-categories in the online championships, but no word yet as to what this will formulate to (as shared by Vekked this morning).

 

Combine this with the ongoing inability of IDA to even keep their judges on a schedule (last year's frustrating case of Q-Bert constantly missing all deadlines for the scratch final) and the monumental fail of the Thre3style Australia final, it seems that we are now reaching a new milestone in DJ competitions: they are becoming obsolete, all by themselves.

 

All I can think of is that the people behind these competitions are still living on a different decade. I cannot explain otherwise how is it possible for so many fails to happen at so many different levels, all within a few months apart.

 

This is sad and in no way I'm happy with their fall. DJ competitions have been a great platform for turntablists to make some bread but it seems that the circle is now almost complete.

 

 

 

 

[Jon]

While I think there's things DJ competitions could do to broaden their appeal to the current music scene, I still think they can have a huge impact on a DJ's career.

 

Speaking as a previous DMC winner that for the last 8-9 years hasn't lived in a big music city like London, Bristol or Manchester, DMC was able to provide a platform for me to get noticed without me having to travel and , in 2013 in particular, put me in front of a lot of people and allowed me to then present the rest of the music projects I've been working on (club djing/ putting out regular mixes/production etc) to a big international audience. I don't think it's possible to have a career off the back of battling anymore without combining it with another skill or project, with Vekked being the only exception in recent memory imo, but it can provide a big springboard and a solid CV point to your DJ resume in other fields. Without having a successful/well shared DMC video I'd probably not have had nearly as many opportunities over the last 3 years, but without doing the projects I've done outside of battle routines I wouldn't have had most of those opportunities either by just being a DMC champ and not doing anything else.

[djdiggla]

I think they are relevant. To the same degree they have ever been that is. ie. 99.9% of the world has never heard of them but to the people that matter so do the battles.

[Vekked]

Hasn't it always been this way? Compared to DJ battles of the past, these current hiccups are nothing. ITF brought out some super classic sets from a historical point of view, but I've heard so many stories about how it was a huge shit show.

-One year the team world finals were held in a hotel room.

-Infamous was announced U.S. champ over Develop and they had to fix it.

-Lil Jaz won ITF Worlds by default because they messed up DJ Shine's flight.

-Some of the epic world final battles we see with A-Trak, Craze, etc had crowds of <50 people.

 

I'm not sure why mistakes by organizations being negligent to some degree make battling obsolete either. I'd say they're more relevant than ever given that 2 of the most viewed battle routines of all time came out last year and this year. I've gotten booked for festivals all my DJ friends have been trying to get on for years based purely on my battling accomplishments, and try getting an equipment sponsorship as a newer DJ/non-legend without any battle titles.

I'd chalk up most of the recent issues as being a result of 2 things:

 

1) Organizers being negligent because they're not DJs and have a detachment from the needs of battle DJs.

 

2) Organizers having good intentions but not having the budget to do things properly. I would say that most judging issues are a result of this... they don't have the money to fly a quality judging panel in for live battles, or pay them for incentive to judge properly for online battles. What do you do in IDA's shoes if Q-bert isn't giving his results? I guess you could replace him, but then you lose the appeal of Q-bert being one of your judges.

[Steve]

How many people actually attend, say, the DMC finals these days? I've never been to one.

 

I don't think DJ comps are obsolete. I do think it's becoming increasingly hard to judge some of them in an era where there's so much variance in equipment though.

 

I quite liked running the DV scratch battles, not that they compare to the big battles, but the problems I had were mostly related to other people letting me down. Judges going AWOL. People asking me to pay them to judge. Sponsors not sending out the prizes.

[Vekked]

How many people actually attend, say, the DMC finals these days? I've never been to one.

Depending on headliners and such the DMC when it's at the Forum generally sells out, and IDA world also generally sells out, both around capacity 1500-2000 venues, I think. I don't think they would have many more people than that at a bigger venue still.

[Steve]

Ah, decent numbers then.

 

I went to a local heat once, in Birmingham. There was only a handful of people there, although it was the lowest level of the comp and it was held pretty early in the evening.

[Jon]

Yeah world dmc is always well attended and the U.K. Final is usually too . The heats I've been too were as well but I imagine it could be different based on the city the heat is in

[Mutis Mayfield]

The technolgy related to bring scratch battling to internet as true gaming it's not ready yet.

We need a realtime ttm software to horse battling and online learning but maybe it will never come.

I tried to help the most I could in skrat.ch and scratchML projects to build it but it wasn't on the brands scope and big heads (like Q and Carluccio didn't help even being aware) so I supose sometime it will come. More or less Roland Serato are bringing the turntable groovebox to the arena which I have lost hope for it too.

 

Let's continue working and let's see.

[kebzer]

I'm aware that all comps had problems in the past too, and we all now that these problems brought them very close to their extinction (ITF actually dropped dead).

 

Though, given the recent popularity of the winning routines, I'm just surprised that the organizers started fucking up things again. Why??? I can hardly believe that they have budget problems right now or lack experience. All I can see is underachievement or low standards that will once more make those battles irrelevant.

 

Popularity wise, I strongly believe that DJ battles are currently at the highest possible level, but I can't see a bright future for them.

[Vekked]

Though, given the recent popularity of the winning routines, I'm just surprised that the organizers started fucking up things again. Why??? I can hardly believe that they have budget problems right now or lack experience. All I can see is underachievement or low standards that will once more make those battles irrelevant.

There's definitely budget issues with nearly every organization. Where exactly are any of them getting profit from? Barely any equipment company is giving money for sponsorship anymore and organizations can't live off gear. Now, whether their lack of $ and budget is ultimately their own fault or not... that's a different question. I think they could be making money if they took notes from rap battles/b-boy battles/etc.

 

Popularity wise, I strongly believe that DJ battles are currently at the highest possible level, but I can't see a bright future for them.

I don't see how DJ battles can be at their highest level of popularity but not have a bright future. DMC isn't battling, IDA isn't battling, and Thre3style isn't battling. They're all just organizations, and if they run themselves into the ground, other DJ battles organizations come up. It happens in rap battling and b-boy battling way more frequently. There's no other hip-hop battle organization that has been around as long as DMC (as far as I know).

 

I see a lot of problems with current battling and organizations that I dislike... but the problems you listed aren't them. How does Q-bert not handing in his results in a battle affect the future of battling? Or a DJ battler cheating, getting caught, and stripped of his title? Or an organizer miscalculating the votes and then correcting it? Of course these things all suck, but unless any of them start happening regularly I don't really see the long-term consequences of 3 unrelated problems that were all solved.

 

...and the IDA/Q-bert thing isn't much of an issue at all IMO, I feel like this happens a ton in online battles has the same problems with judges turning in results including DMC Online, WSTC, and even in my experience running a few tiny online battles over the years. DMC Online has a judging pool of 50+ DJs and I know there are times they struggle to get 3 judges to turn in results for a prelim round when the deadline comes around.

[kebzer]

When official organizations fuck up things, like they did, people lose their trust in them. I.e. fewer DJs will bother to participate if they feel that they are being judged by clowns or under questionable standards.

 

All these battles run under the same format for at least 20 years now (6 min showcase etc.). Therefore, lack of experience is completely out of the question as an excuse. They fuck up either because they're over their heads or because of shady DJ politics.

 

You, Vekked, was the first champ to bring out the issue of unqualified judges and I salute you for that. But I see that the problem is now expanded into other areas of the competitions, and it only gets worse.

[Vekked]

All these battles run under the same format for at least 20 years now (6 min showcase etc.). Therefore, lack of experience is completely out of the question as an excuse. They fuck up either because they're over their heads or because of shady DJ politics.

Tbh I think a lot of the issues in current DJ battles ARE because of lack of experience. Not with running battles in general, but with running battles in the DVS and Internet era where the landscape is much different.

 

And I agree issues like you mentioned are a bad look for battling, but I disagree that somehow they make battling itself obsolete.

[kebzer]

We are still at a turning point, but I most def think that these fuckups will make such battles obsolete in the near future.

 

All it takes is for 1 battle to be organized normally, at last. Organizers should keep their DJ politics out, in our internet era this kind of shit is completely played out.

[djmikec]

Actually it was the 2000 Western Hemisphere Teams Category battle that was in the hotel room. But yes, point taken: shitshow. I remember thinking that the faucet might get in the way, lol

 

 

 

-One year the team world finals were held in a hotel room.

-Infamous was announced U.S. champ over Develop and they had to fix it.

-Lil Jaz won ITF Worlds by default because they messed up DJ Shine's flight.

-Some of the epic world final battles we see with A-Trak, Craze, etc had crowds of <50 people.

 

I'm not sure why mistakes by organizations being negligent to some degree make battling obsolete either. I'd say they're more relevant than ever given that 2 of the most viewed battle routines of all time came out last year and this year. I've gotten booked for festivals all my DJ friends have been trying to get on for years based purely on my battling accomplishments, and try getting an equipment sponsorship as a newer DJ/non-legend without any battle titles.

I'd chalk up most of the recent issues as being a result of 2 things:

 

1) Organizers being negligent because they're not DJs and have a detachment from the needs of battle DJs.

 

2) Organizers having good intentions but not having the budget to do things properly. I would say that most judging issues are a result of this... they don't have the money to fly a quality judging panel in for live battles, or pay them for incentive to judge properly for online battles. What do you do in IDA's shoes if Q-bert isn't giving his results? I guess you could replace him, but then you lose the appeal of Q-bert being one of your judges.

[HiipFire]

I always disliked the entire national competition thing, cause I've always wanted to compete in a DMC battle, but the benelux branch died out in 2008, so the only battle I can enter at this point is DMC online.

I'd much prefer if IDA/DMC organized an open Western Europe battle or something for all the countries that don't have their own branch