Bubba Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 You know with 808 snares on a drum roll and hi-hats doing 16-32s? I was just listening to some old birdman stuff and actually wondered who started the "resurrection" of the 808. Discuss. Cheers, O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Depends exactly what you mean style wise. Some of the 808 styles can sort if be traced back Miami bass or early Atlanta stuff by Toomp. But the slower beats with the double time hats and drum roll snares is more bounce than anything else. So it all goes back to when DJs and producers in New Orleans started sampling the Triggerman beat ('Drag Rap' by. the Showboys) - 'triggerman' in bounce is like the Amen break in D&B. I'm sure I read years ago that it started as something DJs would drop for live MCs and to hype the crowd in the very late 80s and then tracks were cut sampling the beat soon after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Although they weren't the earliest NO tracks using those 808 drums and other obvious sounds, Mannie Fresh's output from early-mid 90s kind of pioneered a lot of sounds everyone still uses even today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doppelkorn Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 There's an interesting list in Ego Trip's book of Rap Lists about the 808 tracks that most influenced that Bounce sound. I'll try and find it online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxdestroyer Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Mid 80s miami bass influenced the dirty south, "ghetto bass" by the 2-live crew is a good example This gotta be one of the first drumroll 808 beats, also the "Just Ice Put that record on" beat was an 808 drumroll type. Basically producer Mantronix started it all, he'll always be the king of the beats. TLA Rock "Bassmachine" 1986 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Well 'Dirty South' as a 'style' comes from a few places....DJ Screw (imho) even tho he didn't produce really influenced the tempo/style of approach for producers and you can still hear it in music today (trap).....as well I'd have to credit UGK for really pioneering that style a bit more......808's and snare rolls don't = dirty south anyway so I don't think its really accurate to say it goes back to miami bass other than similar drum sounds. I'd also credit Master P (yes really) as he was making that type of music since 1991. Its a hard question to nail down 100% but ya.... Also Rockwell really hit the nail on the head....also good points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Skrillex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Mid 80s miami bass influenced the dirty south, "ghetto bass" by the 2-live crew is a good example This gotta be one of the first drumroll 808 beats, also the "Just Ice Put that record on" beat was an 808 drumroll type. Basically producer Mantronix started it all, he'll always be the king of the beats. TLA Rock "Bassmachine" 1986 Yeah like others said, it really depends on what exactly you mean... it kinda developed like most things do and became more and more of a signature feature... Gheto Boys and Scarface obviously pioneered the southern sound but the 909 rolls would be harder to put a finger on... Possibly UGK and/or Scarface would be my guess. In Texas miami bass, bounce and the west coast sound kinda merged it seems like ...there had been that slower bpm with the 808 roll beats in the mid/late 90s and throughout the 2000s. In the Dixie South it wasn't as much Cali influence but you could still see it developing similarly with Three 6 Mafia etc. Most of the earliest southern hiphop tracks that had that sound wasn't really mainstream stuff... People like UGK kinda established a lot of the more modern 3rd Coast (Texas) sound. Maybe it's a stretch, but I think you can see UGK kinda building off the Geto Boys and Scarface's sound and a little early early beginning of that drum style in a couple of their earliest songs like this from 1992:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ljWWuAselk To me, you got Scarface clearly using that roll style drums in 1996. This whole album was huge in Tx. That was probably the first really big song I know of that had the modern southern snares. Then UGK also in 96 with One Day which was big. There was a lot of similar stuff was being released people but most didn't have quite the signature roll altho the rest of the snares are real similar to me. That's the stuff i'm aware of at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxdestroyer Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 yeah Scarface pioneered the southern rap along with others, cant forget the Def IV from Houston but they sounded more east coast How about Dice from Detroit up north? this ish is from 92, the intro beat slow 808, one of the dopest scratches on an intro album 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Good posts. Totally agree with Jeff on Mantronix really being the first pioneer of using drum machines for the kind of fills and drum patterns that everyone else followed. For nerds (like me) here's a little timeline for Triggerman evolving into the NO bounce sound, particularly at the hands of Mannie Fresh... well sort of. From '86 (and New York... or somewhere East Coast) 1991 1993 1995 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Looking at some of this old stuff, I've got to agree with Vet and Diggla that it was Texas DJs and producers that slowed the tempo down. Maybe to make the point, but mostly because it's my jam... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Looking at some of this old stuff, I've got to agree with Vet and Diggla that it was Texas DJs and producers that slowed the tempo down. Maybe to make the point, but mostly because it's my jam... Can't be sipping that lean on no 110bpm ish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Agreed, 110 bpm is strictly for thizz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHouse Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 The Rucker of course. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Thanks guys. The disussion is really informative and also kind of pin-points what I thought, that one can't really put a finger on it, but there def are some stand out figures. I actually didn't know about Mantronix, but after hearing that track, I'd def say that those 808 patterns are pretty much copied all along the lines. So really learnt something there! Thanks guys! I was also thinking of UGK, and for some reason my head kept on bouncing onto the goodie mob, but after listening to their stuff again, my mind was clearly deceiving me on that front. Probably because of this track: And yes, thanks for pointing it out, I was actually thinking more of those double time hihats, drum rolls etc, and not so much of the slowed down, south style, eventhough I do have to say that I have a very special place in my heart for that type of music too and thus very much enjoyed the discussion on that too. Its interersting when thinking about distinct styles of music, that have been around for the last 15-20 years and trying to pinpoint who was actually at the forefront of pioneering it. Not too long ago - I think it was here - someone posted a video on the beginnings of Jungle in the UK, which kind of made me think of all of the names I could remember in the styles of music I've followed over the years, who really had an impact on certain production styles - and thus also defined an era of music. And wait a minute *HIJACK-ALERT* - JHouse - Didn't you use to post on the old D-styles forum or were you the dude who tried power-knapping for a week and were posting about that stuff on the old Snatchcon board? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medinah_nitro Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 It was Swizz Beatz and Mannie Fresh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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