Overtimed? Swing flares.

[ericuk]

Instead of 4 semi quavers, I've added an extra 16th note to make it overt timed and roll over the bar.

 

[chile]

werd thats dope. timed space makes it a five beat cross rhythm

[ericuk]

I'm on the whole cross rhythm thing. I think its the way forward for me, like a new chapter. me and motek were looking at swing flares into boomerangs to give 10 notes and to practice getting the fader hand to switch between 2 and 3 clicks smoothly.

 

Tommorow I'll upload a vid with 1 and 2 clicks before/after/ during tears :-)

[chile]

nice one yeah i recon cross rhythms are the future. in me ebook i mention this use of timed silence to push a rhythm out of regular time as thats the idea behind what i call turnaround transforms. timed silence can be put on litrally anything though and its a dope way of segmenting scratches to create rhythmically interesting variations of a cut.. like if you get a crescent lucky seven and put a timed 1 beat silence after the og flare and then another after the crescent flare you get a 9 beat cross rhythm variation of that 7 beat cross rhythm scratch and it sounds logical too. im blabbering on anyway but yeah the possibilities are immense.

 

back to your cut, ive not actually tried it with swing flares i'll have to give it a go. lately on a similar vein to what your describing but on a simpler level, ive been doing half flare tears (forward part has a flare click, reverse part has a reverse tear to mimic a click) with a timed 1 beat silence..

 

http://soundcloud.com/chile/chile-spaced-half-flare-tear-5

[Guest broke]

I'm not sure what this scratch is called... it's like the last two-thirds of the autobahn...

 

 

anyway, I've been doing this overtime. I don't know music terminology very well, the way I describe it is that I end up getting sort of accented sixteenths instead of quarter note triplets. That description might be complete garbage

[Guest Symatic]

fucked it... wasnt very clear though look arsvj

[chile]

i dont know much about quavers and stuff really so i dont know if youre right or not. the way i sort it out in me head is.. if you slowed down any cut you were doing so that each sound matches each beat in the music youre cutting over.. then you can count up each sound in the scratch and find out how many beats make up the scratch..from yer notation theres 6 equal sound sections so its a 6 cross rhythm, like boomerangs and stuff. thats a jackhammer though from the sound of it

 

http://soundcloud.com/chile/chile-jackhammer-practice

 

 

[ericuk]

I thought the jackhammer was in relation to the tiny record movement?

 

I only say this as he does varying patterns with that rolling record movement... Could be wrong though!

 

He does do that pattern though and I will show yall a tasty thing I do with that pattern tomorrow. :-)

[Guest broke]

It's not the jackhammer, I know that much. As far as notes etc go, overtiming that scratch works in the same way as overtiming a 2-click orbit.

[chile]

fair well im pretty sure the notation describes a jackhammer. what actually is overtiming?

[Guest broke]

fair well im pretty sure the notation describes a jackhammer. what actually is overtiming?

 

True, the notation looks similar but it's not quite the same scratch.

 

I can't really describe overtiming very well. Here's a sloppy clip I made four years ago for Skratchworx where I was trying explain the difference between a regular two click orbit and an overtimed one

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Uuf8gxDWw

 

This is what I think I'm doing

 

 

I could be wrong. What I imagine I'm doing is instead of the orbit going 123 123 123 123 it goes 1231 2312 3123 1231 etc etc

 

Actually, watching Eric's clip I might be undertiming them.

[ericuk]

I am guilty of using words and stuff i dont REALLY know the meaning of! lol

 

I called my technique "overtimed" because its normal technique is performed over 2 beats with what I hear as 4 equal sounds. at the retarded speed I can do swing flares at, each record movement is equal to half a beat.

 

By dragging the final sound (note if we want to sound musical) back for another half beat, the scratch now takes 2 and half beats to return to its first position.

 

instead of counting half beats (quavers/8th notes) I find it easier to count in quarter beats (semi quavers/16th notes). !6ths are easier

 

I tried to explain note lengths but fucked it up, so I might try in a video for those who may be unsure.

 

This throws the scratch over the beat and makes it fall over the rhythm, rather than fitting in with it.

 

I guess you could say this scratch is a bit of a rebel. He throws eggs at rhythms house and probably smokes on buses.

[chile]

i tried searching for musical definitions of over and undertiming and there doesnt seem to be anything. you might think im being picky about this, but if youre conveying stuff to others using terms that arent defined by you or well anybody, its gonna cause alot of misenterpretations of whats being discussed.. i dont even know whether your or brokes understanding of under and overtiming is the same or not and my understanding of this term from what youve both mentioned is shakey.

 

these terms seem to have originated in scratch circles somewhere as there are vids of scratchers using the terms in their video names -

 

this guy for example is doing triplet runs of chirps and calling them overtimed

 

http://youtu.be/KhPmtRaWxKo

 

johnny 1 move seems to be guilty of this too.. in this vid theres a pattern in 8s then later put into patterns of 6's being called overtimed

 

http://youtu.be/xqqhCDjOCD4

 

i dont think theres any problem with using new terms for things.. i mean thats how new vocabulary comes about... just it needs defining very clearly so you dont have 4 different people using the same term and no one knowing for sure whether everyones on the same boat..

 

 

having said that, i do understand what youre saying anyway eric about the swing flare with an extra silence in it. from the terminology i use, which there is stuff written about (google innit), thats a 5 beat cross rhythm.. everything done is equal and 4 parts are sounded while the last part is silent. if you perform any rhythm pattern with all sections being equal like that, you dont need to worry so much about half beat, full beat, quarter beat, eighth beat, sixteenth beat etc.. snippet from me ebook -

 

 

'If you are familiar with music production programs such as Cubase or Fruity loops, you will probably know about quantising. Quantising aligns a musical value to the BPM of a project so music can be created with constant, related timing. In a similar manner, we can apply quantising to scratching by making a concious effort to play each component sound of a scratch technique exactly on each beat of the music we play to, in a 1:1 ratio. This reduces the number of possible rhythmic choices and results in less confusion over timing issues. Without this system, a chirp (or any scratch for that matter) could be performed with a duration of three, four, five or more (or less for that matter) beats, but within the 1:1 ratio confines of this system a chirp can only be two beats in length. This simplified method is one approach from which we can begin to experiment with new rhythm techniques.'

 

if you double speed up a pattern past one beat per sound segment of the scratch, youre in half beat territory, but its still 1:1 between the sound and the new rhythm meter.. thats whats important really, that the rhythm structure remains intact to give the cross rhythm charecteristic..

 

if im confusing you with this 1:1 shit maybe this will help.. or confuse shit more :s

 

 

for every 1 beat , 1 sound in the pattern is played (slow speed)

for every half beat, 1 sound in the pattern is played (double the speed of slow speed)

for every quarter beat, 1 sound in the pattern is played (double again)

for every eighth beat, 1 sound in the pattern is played (double again etc)

for every sixteenth beat... etc

 

fuck it im going to bed

[ericuk]

I'm all about the BROSCIENCE scratching dude lol

 

I think you're right about terminology and I think I've picked up this overtimed phrase from the playground of life that is the internet.

[chile]

this geezer done an interestin talk.. mentions overtiming.. i still dont get it but yeh

 

http://youtu.be/83W0AZ_8QBQ

[Guest broke]

I think you're right about terminology and I think I've picked up this overtimed phrase from the playground of life that is the internet.

 

Likewise

 

With that TTM I've drawn for the 'overtimed' 2 click flares, I guess what I'm doing is speeding them up so that the instead of a triplet I get four sounds per beat. I think that means I'm doing them 133% faster than normal. @Chile - how does that work with your whole 1:1 system?

[chile]

With that TTM I've drawn for the 'overtimed' 2 click flares, I guess what I'm doing is speeding them up so that the instead of a triplet I get four sounds per beat. I think that means I'm doing them 133% faster than normal. @Chile - how does that work with your whole 1:1 system?

 

1:1 just means like.. for every 1 scratch sound segment of a pattern, there is 1 rhythmic unit played. i say beats because when you learn something its usually started slow then built up.. now you change the speed to go faster and its no different really. what you described there with 4 sounds per beat.. i guess that can be termed as quarter notes? so now the 1:1 ratio applies to quarter notes where for every 1 scratch sound is placed over 1 quarter note played..

 

its like making a cake.. if you have all the ingredients in the rigth proportions then you can make a good cake.. if you wanted a cake half the size then you half the proportions of each individual ingredient in the cake... or you want a double size cake you double the amount of each ingredient.. or triple.. but you dont mess with the individual ingredient ratios that make the cake mix or you end up with a cake that doesnt have enough flour or egg etc in it (or too much).. its the balance thats important.. and balance in cross rhythms is about retaining the length of the pattern over the regular time music.. these types of cuts are focused on that interesting play between two rhythms of different lengths. their interaction

[Guest broke]

So it seem I'm talking more about the timing of the scratch in terms of repeating the whole movement slightly faster than once per beat or two beats or whatever. And sure, I understand the quarter notes part of it. It was more a question of how you denote the concept of, say, two orbits over three beats instead of four. I was with you until you started talking about cake.

 

UNLESS YOU TALKIN BOUT COOKIN THAT WEIGHT AND GETTING CAKE OUTTA STATE

[chile]

So it seem I'm talking more about the timing of the scratch in terms of repeating the whole movement slightly faster than once per beat or two beats or whatever. And sure, I understand the quarter notes part of it. It was more a question of how you denote the concept of, say, two orbits over three beats instead of four. I was with you until you started talking about cake.

 

UNLESS YOU TALKIN BOUT COOKIN THAT WEIGHT AND GETTING CAKE OUTTA STATE

 

2 click orbits on their own are 6 beat cross rhythms.. one reason why chirp 2 click orbits are popular could be because it stabilises the rhythm.. you have 6 sounds from the orbit and then 2 sounds from the chirp giving 8 sounds overall making it a regular time scratch..

 

anyway now what youre doing is 3 sounds of the 2 click orbit then a timed space then 3 sounds of the reverse of the two click orbit and then another space so you get a 123 123 123 123 rhythm going on but really theres a silent unheard count that essentially creates the segmented groups of 3 sounds. youre essentially stabilising the 6 beat cross rhythm with 2 extra silences similar to a chirp 2 click orbit but the difference being that the 2 extra sounds are silent.. give this a go..

 

say out loud '1, 2, 3' in equal timing.. then breath in slightly to mark that silent 4th sound also carrying the equal timing... loop that. if you get it fast enough the rhythm created is identical to that in your 2 orbit vid. at faster speeds in yer vid you just do 2 click orbits normally so you get the 6 beat cross rhythm coming out there

[Guest broke]

So it seem I'm talking more about the timing of the scratch in terms of repeating the whole movement slightly faster than once per beat or two beats or whatever. And sure, I understand the quarter notes part of it. It was more a question of how you denote the concept of, say, two orbits over three beats instead of four. I was with you until you started talking about cake.

 

UNLESS YOU TALKIN BOUT COOKIN THAT WEIGHT AND GETTING CAKE OUTTA STATE

 

2 click orbits on their own are 6 beat cross rhythms.. one reason why chirp 2 click orbits are popular could be because it stabilises the rhythm.. you have 6 sounds from the orbit and then 2 sounds from the chirp giving 8 sounds overall making it a regular time scratch..

 

Yes that's another favourite of mine. I'll do the 'overtimed' orbit then throw in a chirp here and there to shift the emphasis.

[johnny 1 move]

 

johnny 1 move seems to be guilty of this too.. in this vid theres a pattern in 8s then later put into patterns of 6's being called overtimed

 

 

Guilty as charged - I figured overtime and under time are reasonable extrapolations of double time and half time (which just mean doing it twice as fast or half speed and are recognised terms)

 

What better way of getting them into the turntablist lexicon than youtube? I think I did try and explain what I meant in the forum thread I did it it for but can't really remember.

 

I think this is a jackhammer:

 

 

And Broke, if you stick a slice before or after your ttm you get a really nice pattern that gets back to an even 8 sounds:

 

[Guest broke]

And Broke, if you stick a slice before or after your ttm you get a really nice pattern that gets back to an even 8 sounds:

 

 

Yeah I've played around with adding different things to get it back to 8, but I still love the way it sounds as 6