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Decent cart for sampling


Dan

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So I got my Techs out of the loft but my 447's are battered, as I'll only be using one deck for sampling I was thinking about getting a new cart, what's a decent one that won't break the bank? or is it just worth getting a new stylus for the 447?

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The current crop of Ortofons are definitely a bit better sound quality than the Shure, well the mid to high end ones are at least.

 

Two warnings though, where you'll pay something like £25 for the Shure stylus the Ort will probably be double that. Also, within the Ortofons range you can spherical and elliptical styli, scratchers always use spherical for the improved groove holding and record wear but elliptical sound better... BUT they also pick up dramatically more surface noise if a record is worn that way.

 

I've got both 44-7 and Ort QBerts and the Orts are my preferred recording device. But apart from the extra cost, both of mine seem to be deteriorating now they're a few years old.

 

If I were you I'd probably just get a new stylus for the Shure you have - buy a genuine one and set it up properly for playback rather than scratching.

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^^That's a good call.

 

 

Man, if you're trying to go on the cheap maybe an ebay Orto cartridge and stylus or a new Sure SC35C. If I remember right the 35C is what everyone used when 44-7s went off the market and they are much cheaper.

 

Altho, like was said. If you want to do really high quality sampling you'll prob want to use a different deck or at least pickup a fancy hi-fi needle like those Grado ones or something like the Orto Super OM 10 or Sure M97xE.

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Once upon a time I had the rather nice sounding Shure V15Vx MR cart, but I didn't use it for a while and then when I next did, the stylus seemed to just fall off the cantilever thing. What a bunch of cunts - and then they discontinued the stylus too. I bought a styli from a Shure M97xE which I think also fits - that cart + styli is about £100 and could be worth a try (https://www.shure.co.uk/products/dj-phono/m97xe). I don't normally get too wanky about carts, as lets be honest all vinyl sounds like shit - but you could definitely tell the difference with the V15Vx MR jobbie.

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I just got the styli from it to go in my other cart. Or maybe I got the whole thing, I'd need to look. Never used it! I got rid of my Techs soon after. I should really set it up on my GAEs but I'm too scared to open them.

I bought that super expensive Shure when I was contemplating digitising loads of my records. I got bored after about 20 records.

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I can't believe you made it as far as 20! I remember reading an article about Jazzy Jeff digitizing his entire collection and going pffft! Not even doing that.

 

And yes, never open those GAEs.

 

 

 

Michael Caine: “You can’t drink them, Freddy. They’re far too valuable.”
Steve Martin: “So you sell them?”
Caine: “I’d never sell them, they mean too much to me.”

 

 

https://youtu.be/x1I-9VSbVGk?t=45m

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I noticed, while watching numerous Rhythm Roulette videos lately, that most of them utilized a 447 needle for sampling. They do have one of the highest outputs on the market, which I would think would translate to quality recordings.

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I would look on ebay for a second hand belt drive hifi deck, they are better quality than a rumbly hummy 12 (they all do that at a low level)

TBH I wouldn't agree with you at all.

 

First of all it obviously doesn't want to be a hifi belt drive deck from th cheaper end as they are definitely not better sounding than a 1200. So that leads you on to serious hifi decks - I use to have a Systemdek turntable with a really nice arm and cartridge specifically to sample from and it was nightmare. Whilst these were once considered the 'poor man's LP-12' and could play records to a standard a 1200 could never even dream of without at least a grand's worth of mods, it was a fool's errand for sampling. First of all, like all serious turntables, it needed setting up very precisely on a perfectly level surface to play properly at all. Even then, it would make a pristine mint copy of well pressed LP sound phenomenal, but with anything less than a perfect condition record it magnified it's flaws to a fault. In my personal experience really good decks always give you everything that's on the vinyl, the best and the worst of its there. For the perfect Dad Rock LP listening experience they're great, but for sampling old soul 45s and the like I'd rather a fractionally lower quality sound than twice the hiss and distortion a good hifi deck will pick up from a less than perfect record.

 

Also, I must say that I've sampled some extremely quiet passages of music from records on my 1200 and boosted the volume way up and I've never heard any extraneous rumble or hum. The only time I have experienced that is from an over weighted cartridge, or damage to the cables or the little circuit board they go into. I'm not saying there's none there with a Technics in good health, but i don't think it's prominent enough to really be a problem when sampling.

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Guest Symatic

if you think about it, most of the samples youve ever listened to on other peoples tunes would have come off a 1200 and a shure m477, so it's clearly a good setup cos everyones happy listening to those samples right?

 

personally i feel like the nice ortofons like the qberts have more clarity than shures, which do seem more bassy but sometimes less clear to me. I have some cheap ortofon stylus' that I thought 'must be the same thing as the expensive ones" and they are rubbish and wear records quicker, so don't try and scripm on ortofon shit i guess....

 

the 1200 is way better than a cheap belt drive deck up until you're spending more than you can buy a 1200 for..... and what rocky is saying is very true, nice hi fi decks often amplify the problems with dodgy vinyl as much as they present detaisl from nice records.

things i've heard with my own ears that made a difference on nice decks - "silicon troughs" as found on Townshend Rock 7 turntables and also available as a mod for technics via KABUSA.com (originators of the 16rpm mod for 1200's too!) but they are well fiddly and expensive.

Ortofon Kontrapunkt and Dynavector cartridges (insanely expensive and would need insanely expensive phono amplifiers to appreciate fully). these carts very fine stylus tips seem to conme into contact with more surface of the groove and pull amazing details out of even fairly worn records - i think they re actually playing parts that a clumsy spherical stylus never even touches.....

 

so basically if youre not down to invest in a really expensive setup, id get a 1200 and a nice cart, either a shure or a ortofon qbert, or the ortofon 2m series are pretty decent also for not-too-mental money.

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As someone with more money than sense, I've considered buying a wanky hi-fi turntable setup - but again the tedious nature of recording vinyl was too much. Also, the real benefit to me would be having the stuff available in Ableton, but warping vinyl rips was even more tedious than recording them.

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Guest petesasqwax

I've used my old man's insanely high end hifi deck and it doesn't do it for me - either for sampling or digitising records. Give me my 1210 with the same shitty Stanton 500 that was on it when I bought it new.

 

At the risk of totally undermining what I just said... if the 1210/500 combo ever did introduce noise it'd just save me a job when I started using it as samples ;)

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