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Difficult music collabs. DV's expert opinions needed...


broma

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Don't know if this is gonna be more a rant than anything but I've been making tunes with a couple of mates for years mainly as a trio.

 

One of them we work pretty well together, but the other more and more seems to be using it as an excuse to just get really fucking high. He's never attempted to learn how to use shit even though he keeps saying he will, and gets impatient if he doesn't like the sound he has, so we have to stop what we're doing and find something he likes, and if me and the other guy are vibing out with something and he's not involved, he wants to start something new rather than try and get involved with what we got going.

 

He doesn't even remember what we did 10 minutes ago most the time and ends up contributing very little more often than not, though every now and then he comes up with a gem. He used to collect samples we could work with but doesn't do that anymore either. Thing is, he's also the most positive about it sometimes! And enterprising in terms of thinking of names for tracks, getting them out there etc. Not that I think we have a hope in hell of anything getting any kind of 'play', whatever that is these days.

 

I don't know what to do. It feels like he's holding us back and stopping the flow more often than not. But he's also a really good mate on a personal level, and we've known each other for over half our lives and I also feel a bit of a cunt for even writing this. #feels

 

So... what would you do?

 

Cheers fellas.

 

 

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Sounds like he should be your promoter or manager not band mate.

 

Maybe propose that idea to him. If he's offended by the idea be brutally honest and let him know it's that or nothing. Sounds like dead weight TBH.

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Yep, I'd be firmer with him having to learn stuff and the same for when he's not interested in something that everyone else is. With the personal connection an all out intervention would be too much, but bringing up individual points when they occur is fair enough. That way it's like you're saying that you want him to be there, but that he has to contribute. If he shapes up that would be good for everybody and if he gets fed up with the new regime he'll probably drift away from doing it of his own accord.

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Thanks Rock Well. I can but try innit! Thing is, I just get flustered and pissed off and can't express it well enough so don't say anything. But yeah, already told him to get Ableton on his laptop for a session tomorrow. It's his New Years resolution to learn it apparently.... Though pretty sure he said that about 10 years ago.

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Tricky situation and I've been there! I don't think there's a right answer but here's some thoughts:

 

First consider these questions:

1. Why do you make music with them - Because you enjoy it? Because you obliged? Because you're friends? Because you need someone there to keep you engaged? Because you group has history/success or is known?

2. What are you trying to achieve - You just enjoy making music? Some sort of success?

 

If the answer to both these questions is simply because you enjoy it, then you can just keep enjoying it. Do it when you feel it's fun and take time off when you're not feeling it. If it's just because you enjoy it then there is no problem, even if one of the guys is doing fuck all.

 

If you feel pressured to do it because they're friends who keep saying "yo, let's make some music tomorrow" and you don't want to let them down, then I recommend you just start saying no more often. Do it when you feel up for it but do what you want to do at other times. Might make you feel uncomfortable to say it but you'll be happier.

 

If you are trying to get some sort of success or recognition then the emotional stakes are raised! Basically, at this point if things aren't going well then success isn't going to make it better (probably the opposite). Add into that ownership and money and you're going to feel hard done by - the best you can hope for is that when the group has a meltdown you can continue on the success trajectory on your own. In this case I don't know whether carrying on or splitting is the best thing to do but I suggest you have a good think about it.

 

Ultimately, I ended up in that last category and decided to split. I don't I had any chance of being happy with the situation and this was probably the right option. However, without the motivation of the other guys (and some other factors) I've pretty much completely stopped producing.

 

Moral of the story - if you genuinely just enjoy making music then it's never a problem and you can just do it as you feel. But if you want to turn it into a career it's can be hard work, lonely if you're doing it alone and frustrating if you're not working with the right people. The people who just enjoy making it are happen to hit success while doing so are very lucky IMHO.

 

Good luck and enjoy it!

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Guest petesasqwax

Ah, man, this is such a shitty difficult situation. In many ways I'm close to beeing too much of a control freak to collaborate, but I've actually done it loads and it has always worked out perfectly. The way it has always worked for me has been one of the following:

1. Clearly defined roles. In one on-going project with my mate Tone, he's musical as fuck and I'm obsessed with drums. Basically I do the drums and create loads of odd textures, he plays the instruments and we fuck around together for the arranging. Works a treat. We make parts on our own but when we work together in person it's at his house so he mans the controls and I come up with any extra shit that might work on my laptop.

2. Respected equals - nobody does just one thing, people come up with different ideas and you go from there. For example, the other person might bring drums so I'd come up with a bass sound or melodic elements. The next track it might be completely vice-versa.

The key element about both of those scenarios is that I've only ever worked with 1 other person at once...

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x2k has solid advice. If you're just trying to have fun then you wouldn't be bothered. Sounds like you friend kinda sucks. So maybe if you're just trying to have fun it still blows--like having a child in the studio with you. It really sucks to ditch your friend but at some point you are going to come to that--it's just like dating someone you don't really like that much. Why not just get it over with now rather than waste both of your time. How does the 3rd person in your group feel about this guy? He cool with him being around? Seems like either the guy just needs to be there but not really a part of your jam or not be there at all. Sucky but true. If you don't have the cajones to tell him straight up then you could always go MIA for a month or two and cut off both friends. Then it will not seem like you are just excluding one of them.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Cheers for the laughs and some solid advice men.

 

However, without the motivation of the other guys (and some other factors) I've pretty much completely stopped producing.

 

That right there is my fear man! I need to do shit with others or it just doesn't happen, or it does so rarely these days.

 

I kinda feel like three people is too much, especially if not everyone knows what they're doing, and that's me included. I think you're right Pete, we need some sorta game plan. I always end up doing the drums but don't necessarily want to all the time, but a lot of the time we just get mashed and then fuck about and make a terrible noise. And not in a good way. Gotta be like 5% of the shit we do is anywhere promising after.

 

Anyways, enough rambling.

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If you make music with even just a small amount of passion then youre on the right track regardless of what you want or hope to achieve from it,however if you're commited to and believe in what you're trying to do and want to take your game to the next level that's a completely different issue because dead weight is dead weight in any Group or band situation..in jazz circles we call the musicians who cant cut it or are only half interested etc "passengers" (and believe me ive known a few ) so therein lies the dilemma,plus getting totally mashed in the studio very rarely produces anything worthy of listening back to anyway,so it sounds to me like you need to try to be really focused on the music instead and why not save the getting high time til after the sessions ? like i said dead weight is dead weight regardless of the situation

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Guest petesasqwax

sounds to me like you need to try to be really focused on the music instead and why not save the getting high time til after the sessions?

I'd agree with that 100%. I always liked to believe that weed helped my creativity, but i doubt that it ever actually did

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sounds to me like you need to try to be really focused on the music instead and why not save the getting high time til after the sessions?

I'd agree with that 100%. I always liked to believe that weed helped my creativity, but i doubt that it ever actually did

 

 

Weed definitely helped to get "in the zone" for making music, but it didn't take long to get distracted and end up reading comic books or playing video games instead. I think I made some of my best music when high though.

 

Getting high with someone else when making music was a complete mess.

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Guest petesasqwax

I think I made some of my best music when high though.

 

I did, but by default. I made some of my worst music when high too. Byproduct of making all my music when high ;)

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I think I made some of my best music when high though.

 

I did, but by default. I made some of my worst music when high too. Byproduct of making all my music when high ;)

 

I must confess to doing so myself also once or twice maybe ..... But then again i am a Professional hahaha

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