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Cool DJ equipment that should exist but don't?


Vekked

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I've been working on getting the chance to develop DJ products with a company for a while, and it looks like I might get that chance. I'm guessing that if we actually work on something, it will be something with a smaller price point like a few hundred dollars for now. It probably won't be anything big like a new mixer or turntables... But they do have a lot of effects algorithms and controller patents and available.

I'm just trying to brainstorm some ideas for cool stuff that I'd like to see/they would see the point of making. Obviously don't give me any ideas that you don't want to have stolen without compensation haha. I'm treating it like a chance to *maybe* create a useful product for turntablists that might not exist otherwise.

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An interesting question and a pretty tough one I think.

 

Partly because a lot of answers would naturally be some kind of deck or mixer, up to and including one with self contained DVS. Wether you're rocking the latest DVS mixer or something analogue with various peripherals, there's already a lot of shit out the to be playing with too.

 

Going back to last last month's CSBBQ as a reference for where I believe turntablism should be heading - as I said elsewhere, two days of of more quantity, quality and variety than I've witnessed anywhere else. Nearly everything was performed on a couple of old PDXs and 56 mixers, often with plugged in DVS boxes and maybe the odd controller... but what was going down really wasn't that dependent on new tech. Paul and Darcy were the main exceptions, but they're very much utilising the integrated DVS software, so again not really relevant to this question.

 

So of no help to this thread/question at all (sorry!), but perhaps we don't need any more DJ gear, just DJs with more skills, great ideas/more creativity and better musical content?

 

Apologies again for a pretty negative response - I was quite excited by this post at first but struggled to think of anything that hasn't already been done or well covered by modern DVS software.

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A midi controlled cattle prod, preferably equipped with a bright orange day glo vari-speed voltage knob and a loud buzzer that sounds for extra psychological effect to scare away the type of annoying or drunk punters who insist on continuously harassing you while you're on the decks.

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perhaps we don't need any more DJ gear, just DJs with more skills, great ideas/more creativity and better musical content?

While I don't disagree with you there, that's something I work on outside of this opportunity ;). And I don't think an equipment manufacturer can do anything about that.

 

Apologies again for a pretty negative response - I was quite excited by this post at first but struggled to think of anything that hasn't already been done or well covered by modern DVS software.

Tbh I've been finding modern DVS annoyingly limiting lately. Prepping for the Goldie Awards was the hugest mess of mapping bugs and workarounds just to get relatively simple stuff working. Like you would think using a keyboard to transpose the a sound, and using a video game controller to cue point should be relatively straight forward to do. Instead it took me 20+ hours of hacking into XML midi files, backing up test files over and over, and learning whatever language Serato uses to code their midi files, just so I could get 2 controllers working at once reliably without conflicting with each other, crashing, or wiping mapping mid-set.

 

We have TONS of equipment, software, and controllers made with the modern DJ in mind, but I still feel like not much is made with turntablists in mind, and we have to do a lot of hacky workaround stuff just to make it do what we want. The obvious reason is that most equipment companies don't really listen to, or cater for, turntablists. But that brings us to this thread, because I found one that might.

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Yeah especially now we have the rane 12 it seems the limitation is software rather than hardware.

 

I'd love to see DVS software where you can just drag samples onto 12/3/6/9 o'clock positions and they'll appear there, and you can switch between sample sets using cue points, rather than having to have all your samples arranged beforehand. Like making your own skipless record. Would make jamming with bands a fuckton easier.

 

Also how about the ability to record DVS movements and edit them like you can with MIDI? Would be great for cleaning up mistakes and as a teaching tool.

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I'd love to see DVS software where you can just drag samples onto 12/3/6/9 o'clock positions and they'll appear there, and you can switch between sample sets using cue points, rather than having to have all your samples arranged beforehand. Like making your own skipless record. Would make jamming with bands a fuckton easier.

God I want this too. Flip was a cool step in the right direction of having basic editing features in DVS but it's such a hassle to open a DAW every time I just want to combine a couple files together.

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I totally hear you DVS, it's definitely not all the way where it needs to be yet, but I figured that 'bring out a new DVS system that's better than all the others' wouldn't be helpful here. Unless you're actually working with a company that makes a DVS system, in that case...

 

I do agree that lots of DJs are using all manner of different kit and having better universal protocols that allow them to easily work together would be great. I know they tell us that they have to have their own ones to get the best performance, but I'm sure that selling you all their own equipment is also on most manufacturers minds.

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I've been working on getting the chance to develop DJ products with a company for a while, and it looks like I might get that chance. I'm guessing that if we actually work on something, it will be something with a smaller price point like a few hundred dollars for now. It probably won't be anything big like a new mixer or turntables... But they do have a lot of effects algorithms and controller patents and available.

 

I'm just trying to brainstorm some ideas for cool stuff that I'd like to see/they would see the point of making. Obviously don't give me any ideas that you don't want to have stolen without compensation haha. I'm treating it like a chance to *maybe* create a useful product for turntablists that might not exist otherwise.

 

All I want is a KP3 with unlimited length loops (or at least 40... or even 32 bars) and a foot pedal to start/stop recording. Everything else is perfect with it: The loops are actually independent (unlike the Electro-Harmonix loopers) and it has unique "bar" loops with really solid auto stretch and MIDI sync (unlike Boss).

 

Only other thing I'd really be interested in is essentially a VCI-380 that's built a little better. It's the perfect size tho and has everything I need for DJing. The knobs and faders (esp the pitch) are all pretty shit feeling though.

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Also how about the ability to record DVS movements and edit them like you can with MIDI? Would be great for cleaning up mistakes and as a teaching tool.

 

I've always thought this would be nice (but very niche) thing as a plugin or standalone sampler. Loads of scratches and patterns pre-made for dropping samples on to - just like an instrument library.

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Yeah especially now we have the rane 12 it seems the limitation is software rather than hardware.I'd love to see DVS software where you can just drag samples onto 12/3/6/9 o'clock positions and they'll appear there, and you can switch between sample sets using cue points, rather than having to have all your samples arranged beforehand. Like making your own skipless record. Would make jamming with bands a fuckton easier.Also how about the ability to record DVS movements and edit them like you can with MIDI? Would be great for cleaning up mistakes and as a teaching tool.

The first could fit in the turntable groovebox concept I will love to see happens some day. Atm you can do it with traktor and remix decks. Since these are now secuenceable you can build your own skip warp thing.

 

The second one was already done and even gone open sourced most of it but never really took off. If there is a real interest in something like that I'm all ears (but I agree with Rock this should be sold to NI, Rane or Pioneer to be implemented inside their own)

 

I managed to Aaron Faulstich implement Ms. Pinky vinyl sdk into its skratcher tool

https://youtu.be/R4W9l0WmL6M

Check the comments

 

So he done it and the result was turntable surgeon. There was another video but seems removed from yt

https://youtu.be/A1rECkUjX0U

 

So Ramon Mathis who known the ideas behind turntable surgeon were mine contact me for his degree thesys and made an improvement. Finally recruit Aaron too.

http://skrat.ch/index.php

 

It was a video but it hasn't sound (due to setup) and seems also removed (not sure if something is in the works since I left the project)

I have a copy if someone wants to check it. That's one of my motivations to share my r&d resources at gdrive.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7FEmphzxtnxM1MxdmVOcDdScnc

 

 

In the meantime some contacts with the people of scratchML has been done. I try to help the most as I can in the building of a "blackbox" (independent unit to decode vinyl vector for draw these ttm).

http://fffff.at/scratch-markup-language-sml/

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/scratchml

https://github.com/scratchml

 

Ramon was still working in something but to know what, just drop a mail asking him. I finally left the attempt since it wasn't going any further and I was putting too much energy to make a living but it doesn't seems possible almost at that time.

 

Cdx/ttm1 digitalization was part of that effort but life goes on and I don't think there is money or true interest from brands in turtablism development. Sorry about being negative, it was a painful experience involving personal issues... but if someone is interested I'm ears as I said.

 

At this point I just don't care about "stolen" my ideas. Ideas float in the Oonosphere and without resources I'm just a madman asking for a buck to diner. I have so many ideas that time to time I need to force myself to forget some of them before these hurt my soul again. It's painful when I don't see them happen or made (like the ttm software) by Rane 6 years later with price I can't afford. The ttm software I realized in my mind when I see ttm for the firet time in scratch the movie. By these time (2003/2004) I was messing with the first Maxmsp windows version to make work Ms. Pinky. I managed to make it working over win xp and Sound Blaster Audigy with Asio4all. I realized too that if I can see something in my mind with the proper resources and motivation I can make it happen. I don't believe there are resources to make this happen but also my motivation was lost somewhere... at least I'm the sampler guy who gone controllerism (tooltablism) more or less when Moldover/Ean Golden started that shit. I tried to fix the war with Tooltablism concept (where every tool has its place). Years later I still have to read Controltablism and missconceptions like that. As Bruce lee said about its JKD "it's just a name. Don't let it separate the nation under stars than human being are". Anyways I was never too much popular in any place lol

 

About scratch recorder (aka realtime automation) I think Traktor will bring something like this somewhere in the future as Serato Mixtape feature on stereoids. The same way lthey did with Ms pinky Ableton m4l patch (ejem) and remix decks. I just hope they make it availabe for iOS too since I don't have computer (well I don't have turntables neither aside the broke cdx).

 

Meanwhile you can use Scratch track vst to scratch and draw automation inside any DAW like Ableton.

http://djtechtools.com/2016/01/14/scratch-track-3/

 

Once again I shared my thoughts with Aaron Leese which add some of them in its apps.

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These go beyond just turntablism but I'd like to see an effects hub that can handle and stack multiple pedals and effects processors, independent volume and wet/dry for each loop. Also wouldn't mind more hardware routing options.

 

This?

http://www.sourceaudio.net/blog/post/the-soundblox-hub-v1-the-power-of-a-multi-effects-system

 

Editing my previous post to add scratch track plugin I remembered that stagecraft software apps has interesting fx routing.

I understand these could be interesting as experimental tool. Maybe it worth a look for you...

 

https://youtu.be/4UO7VNysgHs

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These go beyond just turntablism but I'd like to see an effects hub that can handle and stack multiple pedals and effects processors, independent volume and wet/dry for each loop. Also wouldn't mind more hardware routing options.

This?

http://www.sourceaudio.net/blog/post/the-soundblox-hub-v1-the-power-of-a-multi-effects-system

 

 

 

 

Kind of, but wouldn't really work for me since I tend to use various types of efx pedals/efx units. That one looks like it's only for that specific manufacturer's effects pedals.

 

What made me bring it up was Vekked saying how turntablist rigs tend to be kind of Frankensteinish. That's definitely true for me and I end up looking for ways to link things together. At some point I may buy a 16 channel mixing board. That would probably handle a lot of my issues but would also be overkill.

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Yes this sounds exciting. There definitely aren't many products out there for djs in 2017.

You should be excited, the first product is a standalone portable scratch looper that syncs to a cloud and automatically notifies senior citizen battle DJs when to take their meds so they don't get caught up in a scratch session and forget. PT01 mounts for wheelchairs and walkers soon after.

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Also how about the ability to record DVS movements and edit them like you can with MIDI? Would be great for cleaning up mistakes and as a teaching tool.

 

I've always thought this would be nice (but very niche) thing as a plugin or standalone sampler. Loads of scratches and patterns pre-made for dropping samples on to - just like an instrument library.

 

 

Isn't that what "The Bridge" does/did?

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Also how about the ability to record DVS movements and edit them like you can with MIDI? Would be great for cleaning up mistakes and as a teaching tool.

 

I've always thought this would be nice (but very niche) thing as a plugin or standalone sampler. Loads of scratches and patterns pre-made for dropping samples on to - just like an instrument library.

Isn't that what "The Bridge" does/did?

Mixtape feature of Serato the Bridge recorded the audio from SSL like reWire includding transitions and fader movements but it doesn't record any turntable movement (scratch or whatever). Also it can't scratch Ableton clips just had control over global transport so you can mix your Ableton projects with SSL songs but only scratch in the second. When you dabbled with the transport backwards Ableton jumped to the song position but only as playhead control of the reproduction (near to forward scratch but without pitching so bah)

 

Ms. Pinky m4l managed to load the audio from clips inside the patch to make it accessible for scratch but the info about warp markers never has been accessed. It has another kind of bugs with multiples instances and zero maintenance (was coded initially by Scott and improved by a forum member first and others later but never really developed more than this).

NI released Remix decks and win. It has the best of all without requiring extra software but the chances of ttm software keep lost in the way...

Scratch track plug implemented was lots of people expected from Serato but ugly GUI and crashes made it not so popular. Also as an indie developer he hasn't any major scratcher support to make ubercool video ads.

Finally Serato released SDj and start implementing some of the ideas from the Bridge like Flip and improved SP-6. Ableton by its side released Ableton link which is more or less the Bridge transport scripts glorified. It has its drawbacks but in general it's a great tool.

Traktor/Maschine implemented it giving users the chance to Maschine as 5th deck. Also improved Maschine software to export straightforward into Traktor again bypassing the Bridge worst part to just optimize each app.

Then came Maschine Jam as Push2 competition, Komplete improvements, Reaktor improvements and Maschine mk3...

 

If the dots are right in my mind Traktor and Maschine maybe could add some automation features like Traktor deck in Maschine instead Maschine deck into Traktor. Maschine users don't want it as DAW but NI needs some improvements in this field since Serato has gone Roland and Pioneer seems focused in add each producer-like feature they can. Anyways I will not hold my breath since scratch automation aside mixtape/remix tool doesn't makes too much sense for regular users and turntablism users are known for not being early adopters of any kind of aid help (think in sync drama and how necessary it's as feature if you want to syncronize fx like Jam Burglar proposal...)

 

So there are some tools but idk if there will be new approaches.

 

@vekked what do you think about these? Are you wondering maybe hardware instead of?

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a turntable that's actually good. someone please hire the Vestax team back and get them working on a PDX that sounds nice. (already pointless suggestion I know)

what rasteri is saying about lining up to 3/6/9/12 is a deep subject, if any turntable manufacturers would care to listen, the turntablist community could offer some insightful input for this insturment.

 

a self-contained loop pedal that works like Loopy HD but with a hardware foot switch. pay Loopy HD's deveopers.

 

a move away from endless software updates and the game of wack-a-mole you have to play if you use software-driven DJ products. its insane. I had to sell a really dope mixer i won because it wouldn't run on my OS. the default response of any company is "you need to have the latest hardware/OS" - this is not realistic. what happened to products that had longevity as a feature? oh yeah, capitalism......

 

live looping + retriggering of loops/samples + quality pads + solid as fuck = dope poduct. basically if the SP-404 was able to live loop, its would be game-over.

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Yeah especially now we have the rane 12 it seems the limitation is software rather than hardware.

 

I'd love to see DVS software where you can just drag samples onto 12/3/6/9 o'clock positions and they'll appear there, and you can switch between sample sets using cue points, rather than having to have all your samples arranged beforehand. Like making your own skipless record. Would make jamming with bands a fuckton easier.

 

Also how about the ability to record DVS movements and edit them like you can with MIDI? Would be great for cleaning up mistakes and as a teaching tool.

yes, a way to line cues up where you want them; i.e. 12 oclock or three. doing this manually with blank silent space is tedious.

 

ok, so, hardware?

first, please keep track of any ideas people tell you, and keep that person involved.

 

1..battery power. take anything and put it on batt power; mixer, turntable, player, etc. just the ability to move something around your house, like take your set up out to the balcony on sunday morning or something will make this things sell.

2..stand-alone player, dual-layer, motorised platter..if it's on batt power with an integrated mixer and speaker, hottest product ever

3..vinyl surfaces. think bout this rane 12. think about all the different textures you can put on the vinyl now that it doesn't have to carry a needle. textures that could facilitate more complex hydro sounds.

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