Guest rasteri Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Designing even a simple scratch mixer is a nontrivial thing to do (believe me). DJTech will have sunk a fair few quid into paying the engineers to do the electronics and systems design, only for those same engineers to use that gained knowledge in the Mixars products. I reckon that's what the beef is about rather than the products themselves just being similar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rasteri Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Oh also, Elliot said that DJTech are the no.1 buyers of the Innofader just now, make of that what you will. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELGEE Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I've been reading the comments and it does seem as if there is something else that's not being mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutis Mayfield Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) Things like that make me happy to have left "the game" seriously. Small market and people fighting for misery. In other hand innovation needs money fund or personal time investment. That's why agreed with Rasteri when he wants to keep things open source. I still want to see some promised innvations released or almost source code to do my own units for friends and rock it. Sometimes lost in translation trying to help found myself as a "competitor"(?) Sad, very sad but anyway a reflection of Culture. Edited May 13, 2016 by Mutis Mayfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focus Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 What ups Scratch Homies :-)... I couldn't stay away from this topic, the innovation comment got me to respond on FB,it's been lacking Imo. The Fretless Fader is the freshest thing to date but it's not current, we are stillpatientlyyyyy waiting on Beez too..:-) Aside from all the modding and upgrades that's been bubbling and picking up steam not much was being doneby the companies with resources imho. The Innofader has been selling for years but where are the other innovations at?Giving away free faders andsponsoring events is a way to market and get more sells not innovation. The Scratch Arts are getting bigger and bigger so now there is tension and drama that is more about money and territoryimo. The innofader is simply a successful product not an innovation, there are plenty of Artists cutting it up with Rane and Pioneer Mixer Faders, Sirness on FB is still ripping it up with the Focus Fader v1.0 1,000 years later haha... Taking over the Scratch Fader Market and then not doing anything else in how many years...That is stagnation and slowing down progress. Why? Because, when the average is achieved, when everything tapers off and the skill level is high, when sells are consistent and you establish yourself as the go to man, then what is the motivation for new innovation to happen? The monopoly needs to be broken, competition drives innovation.... Those of you with the creative spark and Artist mentality know that we do things for the sake of creating and challenging ourselves...It's always what about what else can I do, what else can I bring to the table, what other tools will add to the body of work that is already out there? This applies to a new Beat,Scratch, Karate move or Tool for Scratching...We compete with ourselves our peers or Mixars :-)... Most of the mixers are oem and just like those Hanpin turntables that every company has with their own twist, the situationis similar with mixers. Cars for the most part are 4 wheels and a box, how do you create something new with those limitations?How do you paint outside the lines while staying within the lines?Infinite possibilities within the boundaries? Elliot, decided to choose a side and that part is ok with me, taking a side is harder then being politically correctto not offend anyone. That I put respect on...We can like, don't like or don't give a fonk..It's all coo, nobodyowns us.... I wish Mixars great success and Elliot if he drops some mixers, any of you scratch Participants too if yo are putting togetherScratch Tools,Stickers, Nano Boards or Mini Focus Fadersss :-)... We do need to break the chains, break the monopoly quick though.... If I was a Mixer Company I would make my Mixer Compatible with the Rane Magnetic Fader :-) Compatible with theVestax Fader, Compatible with the Ecler Fader :-)....It's been awhile since we have heard from Siya and The Pro X Fader.. I would take the FB post as an invitation to get into the Fader Market if I was a Mixer Company... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELGEE Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 The motive behind Elliott public outing alesio is till very fishy to me. I reckon there is much more going on that just a bit copying, wouldnt be surprised if Inno have stakes in djtech and mixars didn't want to sell any equity so Inno publicly bad mouth alesio, gain there customers and make it hard for Mixars to be a threat. It will all come out soon enough. Didn't Elliot do the same thing as Alesio to Edsel by going off and creating the Inno? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 http://djworx.com/galileo-new-fader-tech-mixars-pro-x-fade/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Pro X have got new pro X's on the way. I just got one the other day through a combination of bad and good luck In my mind the Ball-Ache to Functionality ratio on a pro x is way better than the Inno, but my opinion's biased as i havent owned an inno, but have witnessed plenty of anguish with people trying to set em up. when theyre perfect they are extremely good but to get em perfect seems pretty difficult.... the new pro x is basically the same as the old one it seems, time will tell if any of the minor flaws ive experienced with older models are still there. theyre teaming up with mixars now. interesting cos of the previous inno/pro x online beef..... http://djworx.com/galileo-new-fader-tech-mixars-pro-x-fade/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=DJWORX&utm_content=GALILEO%3A+New+fader+tech+from+MIXARS+and+Pro+X+Fadeah beaten by rocky again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Fader Wars is the 2016 Star Wars I guess it's not surprising that in the wake of the Inno/Mixars fall out, Mixars have revived the comatose corpse of Innofader's arch nemesis (pretty much the same as hunting down old man Skywalker on his lonely planet of retreat as the Dark Side grows strong once more). I reckon this is good news. You can't beat a bit of choice and a choice of one is no choice at all. Also, I've never been totally sold in the Innofader. Some people love them and actually the new Pro 2 finally does what it's supposed to IMO. But I feel like a lot of the previous 3rd party fader war was won by PR and the fact the Inno was contactless. I reality, I think the old PXF actually cuts better in some mixers than the Inno ever did, old Vestax particularly. The innofader thing of of a different cut-in and cut-out point never sat right with me either, not least that the first time I saw it mentioned Elliott said Troubl was the first person to notice it inherent in the earliest versions, but later he called it a feature for fast scratching. My own PNP suffered poor manufacturing tolerances which made it click until I modded the problem myself. My opinion on the last PXF isn't all rosy either. They were always a bit too stiff (or at least some of them are), I've known of a few get older and play up various ways too. The final insult was a couple of years back when I decided to revive an old PXF and it needed a new fader cap. Seeing the website was still up and selling spares, I ordered a couple of new ones. They took my money and sent me two that were older and more wobbly than the one I already had. Cheers cunts!.. It was only a couple of quid for two bits of plastic, sure. But a "sorry we don't have any of those left" or "sorry we have none, but try these for free" would have been preferable. Anyway, my rantings are irrelevant here. But another fader manufacturer on the market, even if it isn't 3rd party, is good progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Wait what? Si, you own a new version PXF already, or do you mean a new old one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 i got a new new one. it has a black pcb which is the only difference i''ve noticed cosmetically. i sent one of mine that i had fucked up from trying to mod it various ways over the years - the cut in point would drift after a while cos it is set by a brass nut thing that you turn and it sets the cut in position. but this nut can move after years worth of lube and 2-click practice, and i always wanted it to have a quieter 'click'. it was never really loud but i prefer no click at all. so i tried adding soft washers which worked but i ended up damaging the clips that hold the rail. eventually they broke and the rail fell out. totally my fault. so i sent it to pro x and they tried to fix it but couldn't so they sorted me a new one which have just arrived with them. bang! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELGEE Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 My PXF was quite stiff, even after long term use and constant cleaning etc, never tried a Inno as I have a rane now and never saw the point in getting one. This is all good I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Si - very interesting. So 'Galileo' is basically newly manufactured PXF (maybe with tiny tweaks, maybe not?). At least your experience of the company was better than mine. ELGEE - yep, I concur. Right down to the not needing an inno in a Rane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Pro X have got new pro X's on the way. I just got one the other day through a combination of bad and good luck In my mind the Ball-Ache to Functionality ratio on a pro x is way better than the Inno, but my opinion's biased as i havent owned an inno, but have witnessed plenty of anguish with people trying to set em up. when theyre perfect they are extremely good but to get em perfect seems pretty difficult.... the new pro x is basically the same as the old one it seems, time will tell if any of the minor flaws ive experienced with older models are still there. theyre teaming up with mixars now. interesting cos of the previous inno/pro x online beef..... http://djworx.com/galileo-new-fader-tech-mixars-pro-x-fade/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=DJWORX&utm_content=GALILEO%3A+New+fader+tech+from+MIXARS+and+Pro+X+Fadeah beaten by rocky again I've owned both. Prefer the Pro X altho the inno has grown on me. Mostly because they don't make a Pro X for the 909. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deft Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I think I've tried most faders and I've always liked the Infinium in my Scratchbox. Never given me any hassle and I've never needed to maintain it in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubba Dutchdj Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Ah that's great news that ProX are kicking back in to life!Inno feel in use with a ProX sounding cut = perfect for my taste, of course its a personal taste thing but the difference of quality feel with inno vs ProX is pretty big, innos manufacturing tolerance from the many I've had is pretty tight, but in reality/for me the first three versions, original, pro and pnp all had far to many faults which have seemingly been sorted on the the Pro2. I'd even go as far to say that I preferred the mini inno and its gash mega cut lag over the the original 3 more expensive inno versions, simply because the cut is far superior IMO.The inno Pro2 on the other hand has actually made me full a bit in love with my Z2 as a scratch mixer, something I thought that would never happen.I love the cut on ProX and they do feel great in use but side by side an Inno jus has that higher quality, more solid constructed feel. Where as the ProX stem has a tiny bit of wriggle room on the rail which gets worse as they age. Manufacturing tolerance seems a bit more varied in my experience. Until the Inno 2 landed I preferred the ProX by some distance but now I couldn't really say which I prefer.Alternatively, original TTM 56 = fader win, i really don't like the new rane faders in comparison, they break to easily and in use they sound like a type writer being thrown down the stairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELGEE Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 TTM56 fo sho !!! growing up my dad always said the best guitar players learnt on the shittest equipment ( Hendrix, Brian May, Steve Vaughan etc) so I have always thought the same with faders. Give me an old Alps fader and I'm sure I could hang with most guys in the cut, Inno faders are for bitches IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 ^^I'm not a huge fan of that fader My experience with Pro-X was it worked great right out the box and felt natural to me. Had a wobbly fader cap too and put a tiny but of silly putty up there--no problem now. My experience with Inno was wait years to finally get one that fits my mixer. Find it impossible to setup. Go to their board for help. Told what to do-doesn't work. Go back. Told something else to do-doesn't work. Never get it properly set. Jon or someone on here finally figures it out on their own. Walks me through it. Finally works perfect. So I don't really have a positive view of Inno after all that bullshit. Pro-X --right out the box like Serato. And like I said before, was very dissatisfied with the DJ Tech Thud Rumble mixer. Sure it had an inno in it but pretty poorly designed other than that. So makes it hard to want to support a company that stole an idea, made a difficult product, backed a company that made a shined turd of a mixer, then put someone on blast for breaking off and being just as capitalistic as they originally were. Not to mention, being at a job where many employees are under appreciated and undervalued it's a lot easier for me to side with the employees that left--shit, they were probably the ones running the company but at the bottom of the totem pole! I already had sworn to never buy a DJ Tech product again... really on the fence with inno after this bullshit. IMO, if you want to make business personal... if you don't want to make money... hey, fine by me. I'll spend it somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 I think I've tried most faders and I've always liked the Infinium in my Scratchbox. Never given me any hassle and I've never needed to maintain it in any way. Same, although if your mate has had few and is 'teaching' some drunk girls in a pub how to scratch, they can stop cutting on one side. Of course, it's very quick and easy to clean the little spot of dried on brown liquid from the little plastic mirror and then all is right with the world again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symatic Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 yeah my ttm56 is coming with me past the apocalypse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rasteri Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I like the fact that you have to fiddle with the Inno to get it working properly. How sad is that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 I like the fact that you have to fiddle with the Inno to get it working properly. How sad is that Everyone enjoys a fiddle, but you're on your ownhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELGEE Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I don't mind tinkering with things to an extent but the inno fader sounds like too much hassle.💩 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
props to the finger Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I used to despise my proXfade. I bought one to replace the PnG in my Xone:02 back in like 05-06 or something, and it would NEVER.STOP.POPPING. no matter how well i cleaned it. and mind you, my PnG never popped. I'll be honest, I don't know why I updated from the PnG as I never had the fader decay issues people always talked about, so I probably convinced myself i had it. 16 year old insecure kid, hell yeah. Remember loving the Innofader I had in my PMC-007, but after having owned an Ecler Hak 380 and the Vestax pmc05proIII and the TTM56s in the years after my apartment burned down (took my 007 and hak 380 with it). I don't value to the need to adjust and tinker that much any more. I got an OG innofader included with my QFO, but jesus christ was it a fucking chore to get it to work without noticable popping, dunno if the newer ones solve this. Right now I've got it a bit too loose, but hell if i can be bothered to open up the qfo and adjust it. In all honesty, I think it's good for the industry, but i generally don't care. I never liked the ProXfade and the innofader isn't as magical as it once was for me. I'm completely fine with opening the rane ttm56 every three months and apply some lube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I bought an Inno for my 05ProIII a few months back, but then remembered that my stock fader was still golden so traded it to Ric for an iPhone 4s that I run Filtatron on via the iRig. Happiness all round 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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