Best Mixer (Crossfader) for scratching purposes only?

[porrtis]

hey guys,

 

so after a veeery long break of approximately ~8 years i just recently started scratching again. so i dug up my old vestax pmc 06 and turntable and i was having a blast but my mixer feels very outworn and i used to get the best out of it long ago anyway.

 

thus i am currently looking for a new mixer. my highest priority is scratching. i don't even own a 2nd turntable currently and i havent considered getting additional things like SERATO anytime soon but i might consider getting these things sooner or later still.

 

i also considered simply getting a new crossfader like the innofader pro2 for my vestax pmc 06 like i used to do with the PRO X FADE back in old days but i don't think it's worth the hustle since my mixer is outdated anyway and before i spend approximately 200bucks on a new fader in a crappy mixer i'd rather use 500bucks for a completely new mixer.

 

i don't really have a budget line. i even considered getting myself a rane TTM56 since i always kinda wanted to own one but considering i do scratching only, i dont know if a rane ttm56 is worth the money in my case. i know that the ecler hak360 used to have a very solid reputation amongst scratchers like 10 years ago but maybe there are new and other options i'm just not aware of.

 

what's most important to me is the smoothness and cut points. its really most important the cuts are as sharp as any possible without any fading and it should feel smooth cutting. that's pretty much it.

 

my budget is somewhere between 200-800€ (since i even considered getting a new Rane TTM56) but i'm quite confident that there are mixers that fit my expectations for way less than 800€.

 

since i might want to add serato to my setup in the near future, it might be helpfull to know whether the mixers you suggest are compatible with serato. however, serato is really not too important. i guess i won't get it anyway. so don't focus on that.

thank you guys for any help. i'm really appreciating any suggestions

cheers

[jeljms]

If Serato or Traktor are not a priority, you may be surprised to find that in terms of mixers just for scratching, things haven't actually changed that much over the last 8 years. Most mixers these days are made with a broader audience in mind than just scratch djs so even ones which have high quality crossfaders that are good for scratching aren't necessarily turntablist mixers per se. Since the TTM57 came out about 9-10 years ago, DVS mixers have become the new norm - most are compatible with one of either Serato or Traktor.

 

So, the old (non DVS) favourites are still probably the best in pure scratch terms:

Rane TTM56

Ecler HAK360 and HAK380

Rodec Scratchbox

Allen and Heath Xone 02

Pioneer DJM 707 and 909

 

Just depends what features are most important - for example, if adjustable cut lag is important then that would rule out the Rane and the Xone 02 but all of the above are top notch and would be upgrades on the PMC 06 in terms of features. You'd have to pick one of these up second hand though.

 

One other option if you're unsure about DVS is a Vestax PMC 05 mk4. It has a great crossfader by all accounts and it has buttons to control a DVS but it doesn't have an audio interface built in so you could always buy it as is for scratching and then upgrade it with a Serato or Traktor audio interface later as it is designed to work with both.

[Mutis Mayfield]

Pioneer has announced new mixer on the budget with magvel fader and its DVS solution integrated (for the same price). Idk how is the fader against inno or eternal but seems worth it the investment. Hint: pioneer had entered into the scratch/dvs realm not so long time ago.

 

http://www.digitalvertigo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=39908

 

Vestax/Ecler have gone but new players arrived djtech/mixars. You can find Eclers at second hand (almost in my country) and djtech has Dif-1s mixer with new innofader cheap than the older innofader pro itself.

 

https://djworx.com/review-dj-tech-dif-1s-scratch-mixer/

[Guest Symatic]

I'd get a pro x in the 06, or a ttm 56.

[d00ban]

Nothing wrong with sticking a nice fader in the 06 at all if you're just scratching. So guess find one you like the feel / price of and go with that. You can always transfer the fader to a new mixer in future too innit.

[DJ Rock Well]

My favourite faders are the the Rodec, the 56 and the Vestax CF-X2 in the 05 IV. The Ecler eternal fader should be included in their too, all though I've only ever had a couple of goes on one.

 

All are good and in the hands of right DJ, will do the job but there are tiny differences - the Rane has a slightly softer cut which actually cuts the sound in in two stages when you move it really slowly. In use it works way better than that makes it sound but I have met the odd DJ who doesn't like it (Eric for instance) and some who seem to utilise it's quirk as a strength. At the other end of the scale the Vestax CF-X2 has a particularly brutal cut in, as harsh as it can go without popping. In the middle of those two you have the Rodec (and the Eternal as much as I've used it to know) which is crisper that the Rane for sure but never sounds quite as aggressive as the cut on the CF-X2. Obviously these it are tiny differences and won't make a good cutter worse or a ropey one better (personally tested that myself), but I have certainly encountered DJs that are bothered by these differences to a degree. If you can find somewhere or some way to try any of your options out, that would probably be best.

 

One other final thought on the new Rane 56s, personally I wouldn't bother and would hunt down a clean old one instead. At the place where I teach they bought a new 56s and I came with the new generation Rane fader with the shitty plastic bit on the rails that breaks (ours did twice in about a year). You can but the new third party metal part but it's not cheap and dumb that you have to. Apart from breaking, the new gen Rane faders feel cheaper in the hand and on the 56s we got from new and its replacement under warranty, both had about 4mm cut in distance at their sharpest setting and had to be washer modded to make them useable, which seems like a load of bollocks on such an expensive dedicated scratch mixer.

[Guest petesasqwax]

Another vote for sticking a new fader in the 06

[Freshcuts]

Yeah just get an innofader except if you have been eyeing one of the classic mixers (like I have with the Ecler and the Rodec) and you can find them second hand on the cheap. Maybe a reason to upgrade to a new mixer would be to have master out on the headphones, if I recall correctly the 06 only has the cues.

[porrtis]

yeah, thanks for all your valuable replies guys. i really appreciate each and everyone of your suggestions.

the issue i have with getting a new fader for my vestax pmc 06 is that it would be the 3rd time i am upgrading this mixer with a new fader and each time i spent more than 100bucks for each upgrade. i tried the Penny and Giles Fader 1st, it was okay but i wasnt too impressed and replaced it with the Pro X Fade eventually which i actually liked a lot. I am still using the Pro X Fade in my Vestax and it's cool but i remember having a Rane and Ecler once in my hands and their faders felt immediately "right" to me. the Pro X Fade is cool but i cutted like crazy for years on it and i feel like it's really time for an upgrade.

But i dont feel like upgrading the Crossfader for the 3rd time to be honest. And like Freshcuts mentioned correctly, the Vestax PMC 06 lacks master-cue which is quite annoying.

 

Since i've never been a fan of Pioneer products the both suggestions that were appealing most to me were the Rane TTM56 or the Ecler Hak 360. Now DJ Rock Well's statement about the TTM56S was quite interesting since i didnt know the TTM56S is of different build-quality than the original TTM56.

I'm not sure how easy it will be to find a used original TTM56. i know that the TTM 56S is currently available for about 500€ used on ebay.

 

the Ecler Hak 360 however is available at ~500€ new which i find quite reasonable for a new mixer that is used for scratching purposes exlusively and had such a good reputation for the last decade amongst many scratch-addicts.

 

am i on the right track?

 

thanks for all your help guys! really appreciating all your expertise.

[Guest petesasqwax]

I can't lie, when I used Ric's Hak it made me weep at the beauty of it's fader action...

[DJ Rock Well]

Porrtis - the earlier 56s models had the older style faders, but when the 61 and 62 dropped with the newer faders it inherited them too. They cut in is much better on the 61 and 62 though, so maybe they just don't work out quite so well when added to the older model?

 

As much as the 06 would keep going, I'd go with a better non DVS scratch mixer myself. I like having more in and out options, better EQ and better sound, etc. Also, the Inno Pro 2 has finally nailed it and is a good fader IMO, but I still like the others I mentioned above as much or more. Plus they just work I the mixers they were made for, none of this constant messing about with setup, calibration and recalibration a la Innofader... They're a great solution when you have no other option, like in a Z2 for instance, but otherwise I'd rather go with a mixer that starts off with a great fader fitted.

[MadAbbott]

can't really speak about build/sound quality but from general consensus no one ever seems unhappy the fader on an Ecler Hak (I haven't tried it). Every innofader I've ever had had a problem after a while or needed constant taking apart of the mixer to adjust. If you don't mind messing with them and having the customizable options then a used Vestax plus innofader can be puchased under £200/$250 in total I'd imagine.

I'd definitely recommend taking Rock's advice on anything mixer-related, they've had pretty much every mixer pass through the studio of theirs at some point or another!

[ericuk]

06 owner here and all round fuss pot/tight ass.

 

I've never had to replace the fader, but as mine was an early model, I did eventually exchange it for a newer type and then only ever cleaned and modded. Upgrading to an innofader gave me a no maintenance, super sharp/light fader with adjustable cut in. the pro 2 is even better.

 

I've wired in my own headphones cue, baring in mind I'm not technical, it still works today!

 

They aren't the best sounding mixers, but IQ seems to do okay on his

 

p.s I brought mine in 1999.

 

Upgrade if you got the money and want to, but I guess I'm saying it's not necessary.

[jeljms]

I'm not sure how easy it will be to find a used original TTM56. i know that the TTM 56S is currently available for about 500 used on ebay.

 

the Ecler Hak 360 however is available at ~500 new which i find quite reasonable for a new mixer that is used for scratching purposes exlusively and had such a good reputation for the last decade amongst many scratch-addicts.

 

am i on the right track?

 

thanks for all your help guys! really appreciating all your expertise.

You seem pretty set on getting an upgrade to your mixer rather than just changing the fader in your 06 so I'd suggest going on ebay to see what you can find. The original TTM56 comes up quite often on ebay (in the UK at least) and you can pick one up for around £250-300 and sometimes for less. Ecler HAKs (360 and 380) tend to be a bit more. Rodec Scratchboxes are rarer than hens' teeth but I once saw one go for not much more than £200, which is just crazy. If you can find one, I'd expect to pay around £400-500 which would be closer to the upper end of your budget but anyone who has ever used one (not me) including guys on this forum think it owns every other scratch mixer out there.

[kebzer]

You don't need a new fader, you need a new mixer with advanced CF controls.

 

I.e. you need a Vestax PMC 08.

 

You can find one in decent condition for less than 500 bucks, which makes it still the best mixer for the buck.

 

I won't recommend you the Rane TTM 56s, which is more like a BMW vs Mercedes, because you're a Vestax guy and you won't find the fader feel that nice on the Rane, as it is too soft.

[porrtis]

thanks for all your additional replies guys. you're really helping me out

i'd definitely prefer getting a new mixer with a solid crossfader rather than upgrading my vestax pmc 06 for the 3rd time. i've never been too stoked about the vestax pmc 06 to be honest. it served me well lots of years and has been a solid mixer but i've never been too satisfied in general.

 

what do you guys think of the Traktor Kontrol Z2? compared to the ecler hak 360 and rane TTM56s? any pro's and con's?

 

the Traktor Kontrol Z2 is available at a really reasonable price and comes with Traktor Scratch Pro, that caught my attention. Rock Well you mentioned something about the Z2 and the innofader? Is the default fader of the Z2 worse i.e do people upgrade their Z2's with innofaders? If that's the case i will definitely stick to Ecler/Rane TTM56.

[jeljms]

I'll leave the questions about the innofader in the z2 to Rockwell but just to repeat my point that the older scratch mixers (TTM56, Hak360, etc) are still the best mixers purely for scratching - they're analogue mixers too - which seemed to be what you primarily wanted to use it for, whereas newer DVS mixers like the z2 are not "turntablist" mixers exactly (although plenty of turntablists use them!), but they usually have good crossfaders anyway.

 

Once you move into DVS and into digital in general, the focus becomes more about the software than the hardware. So if you're interested in a new mixer with DVS, before you make that leap see if you can try out Serato and Traktor to see which software you prefer and to also see how you feel about DVS as well.

 

Another related point on the digital front. I've recently gone back to an analogue set up (well, vinyl and CD anyway) simply because I could not be bothered with all the organisation around digital music files and wanted to use something more tangible again. I was fundamentally interested in just scratching and I found that with having a family, I just didn't have the time to invest in what felt like admin around digital music. Using a laptop at home with music had started to feel like an extension of work (I use one all day in the office) and so it didn't feel like I was switching off when I was djing.

 

Getting into the digital side of things does require an investment in terms of time (as well as money) so it comes back to what you're primarily going to use the mixer for. If it's just scratching, I think a Z2 may be unneccesary.

[porrtis]

you came up with pretty good points there jeljms. thanks for that.

 

however, as far as i know the Rane TTM56S is compatible with serato, isn't it?

after all i definitely tend between the Ecler HAK 360 and the Rane TTM56. I just struggle to decide which to go for. maybe someone has a solid point why to choose one over the other.

thanks for every input guys. your comments helped me clarify lots of things i wasn't aware of.

[kebzer]

porrtis, no diss but you need to get things sorted out first (and use a lot of google, lol).

 

The Rane TTM56s is NOT compatible with Serato. The TTM57 is, but only with Serato Scratch Live, not the new software Serato DJ.

 

The NI Z2 is a great budget mixer for DVS use, but it is still a budget mixer. It does NOT have an Innofader CF, it has the Innofader MINI which is a very basic version of the normal Innofader, but nowhere close to durability and functions.

 

Now, if you are really looking to get into DVS, while keeping the scratching part in full, you'll have to look only at the options available from Rane & Pioneer. Anything else is just inferior. The choices you have are:

 

Rane 61 - compatible with Scratch Live & SeratoDJ

Rane 62 - compatible with Scratch Live & SeratoDJ

Rane TTM57mk2 - compatible only with SeratoDJ

Pioneer DJM S9- compatible only with SeratoDJ

Pioneer DJM 450 - compatible only with Rekordbox

Pioneer DJM 250 - compatible only with Rekordbox

[Freshcuts]

My first decent mixer was a Vestax pmc pro 5 II and I did a similar upgrade path from Pro X to Innofader.

 

Then I got a second hand Rane 57 for 600€ and I loved the faders and build quality and built in Serato. Then Serato stopped supporting new Mac OS X versions and I decided it's time to change mixer.

 

My ideal option was the Pioneer S9 but I couldn't justify the price tag for bedroom DJ use.

 

I found a second hand Z2 on Wallapop (Spanish second hand marketplace) for 390€!!!

I wasn't very keen to switch to Traktor but the price was too good.

 

The stock crossfader was nice but had a bleeding issue so I decided to get an innofader PNP that set me back 140€...

 

Meanwhile NI send me a replacement fader. I am now happy with my crossfader and mixer.

 

The Z2 has a very intuitive layout and makes using features like FX, Cues and loops fun and easy compared to the 57SL.

 

I still struggle with Traktor though because it's overwhelming. Too many features and options compared to SSL.

 

Just realised I just wrote a comment of the size of my medium posts

 

@porrtis, where are you based? Have a look to the online marketplaces for discounted mixers. I found Ecler 360 in Barcelona for 300€!

[porrtis]

it's all good. however, my priority isn't DVS. i just saw some well known scratchers using the Z2, that was mainly the reason i asked. i am still a bit confused since lots of things are new to me after so many years and since ive never been into mixers too much. thanks for your clarification though.

[porrtis]

@freshcuts thanks for sharing your story! i am based in germany/EU. ecler HAK 360's are available at ~300EUR on ebay. pretty nice deal actually. i will get myself a new one though. 480EUR for a new one is quite nice.

[DJ Rock Well]

The Z2 is the mixer to go for if your main interest is DVS and easily utilising all the digital features, etc. An Inno Pro 2 brings the fader up to top standard for cutting too - check out all DubbaDutch's recent output for a demo of what a Z2 with an Inno Pro 2 is good for. But it doesn't sound as good as the analogue options you have and you paying a lot for fader that's as good as the ones they ship with.

[porrtis]

alright thanks for the insights Rock Well. i am pretty confident i will go with the ecler 360. it fits my expectations most and isnt too expensive either. nice!

 

thanks for your help guys. i learned a lot and cant wait to do start recording new stuff

[DJ Rock Well]

From everything I've read here, a good clean or new Hak 360 is your best bet. Pretty much everybody I've ever known who's had one loves them... like REALLY loves them... and coming from a Vestax with their quite crisp cutting fader, I think you'll like the Eternal a lot.