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Cool DJ equipment that should exist but don't?


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#1 Vekked

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:25 AM

I've been working on getting the chance to develop DJ products with a company for a while, and it looks like I might get that chance. I'm guessing that if we actually work on something, it will be something with a smaller price point like a few hundred dollars for now. It probably won't be anything big like a new mixer or turntables... But they do have a lot of effects algorithms and controller patents and available.

I'm just trying to brainstorm some ideas for cool stuff that I'd like to see/they would see the point of making. Obviously don't give me any ideas that you don't want to have stolen without compensation haha. I'm treating it like a chance to *maybe* create a useful product for turntablists that might not exist otherwise.


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#2 Vekked

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:02 AM

*should exist but doesn't, fml


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#3 DJ Rock Well

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:52 AM

An interesting question and a pretty tough one I think.

Partly because a lot of answers would naturally be some kind of deck or mixer, up to and including one with self contained DVS. Wether you're rocking the latest DVS mixer or something analogue with various peripherals, there's already a lot of shit out the to be playing with too.

Going back to last last month's CSBBQ as a reference for where I believe turntablism should be heading - as I said elsewhere, two days of of more quantity, quality and variety than I've witnessed anywhere else. Nearly everything was performed on a couple of old PDXs and 56 mixers, often with plugged in DVS boxes and maybe the odd controller... but what was going down really wasn't that dependent on new tech. Paul and Darcy were the main exceptions, but they're very much utilising the integrated DVS software, so again not really relevant to this question.

So of no help to this thread/question at all (sorry!), but perhaps we don't need any more DJ gear, just DJs with more skills, great ideas/more creativity and better musical content?

Apologies again for a pretty negative response - I was quite excited by this post at first but struggled to think of anything that hasn't already been done or well covered by modern DVS software.

#4 danswift

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:14 AM

A midi controlled cattle prod, preferably equipped with a bright orange day glo vari-speed voltage knob and a loud buzzer that sounds for extra psychological effect to scare away the type of annoying or drunk punters who insist on continuously harassing you while you're on the decks.
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Symatic on O9 May 2016-08.49 PM said
oh dan you filthy bastard why open such a nerd can of worms to a bunch of beat perverts like you find on here ???
https://soundcloud.com/user-58305257

#5 Vekked

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:01 AM

perhaps we don't need any more DJ gear, just DJs with more skills, great ideas/more creativity and better musical content?


While I don't disagree with you there, that's something I work on outside of this opportunity ;). And I don't think an equipment manufacturer can do anything about that.

Apologies again for a pretty negative response - I was quite excited by this post at first but struggled to think of anything that hasn't already been done or well covered by modern DVS software.


Tbh I've been finding modern DVS annoyingly limiting lately. Prepping for the Goldie Awards was the hugest mess of mapping bugs and workarounds just to get relatively simple stuff working. Like you would think using a keyboard to transpose the a sound, and using a video game controller to cue point should be relatively straight forward to do. Instead it took me 20+ hours of hacking into XML midi files, backing up test files over and over, and learning whatever language Serato uses to code their midi files, just so I could get 2 controllers working at once reliably without conflicting with each other, crashing, or wiping mapping mid-set.

We have TONS of equipment, software, and controllers made with the modern DJ in mind, but I still feel like not much is made with turntablists in mind, and we have to do a lot of hacky workaround stuff just to make it do what we want. The obvious reason is that most equipment companies don't really listen to, or cater for, turntablists. But that brings us to this thread, because I found one that might.
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#6 rasteri

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:42 AM

Yeah especially now we have the rane 12 it seems the limitation is software rather than hardware.

I'd love to see DVS software where you can just drag samples onto 12/3/6/9 o'clock positions and they'll appear there, and you can switch between sample sets using cue points, rather than having to have all your samples arranged beforehand. Like making your own skipless record. Would make jamming with bands a fuckton easier.

Also how about the ability to record DVS movements and edit them like you can with MIDI? Would be great for cleaning up mistakes and as a teaching tool.
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#7 Vekked

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:52 AM

I'd love to see DVS software where you can just drag samples onto 12/3/6/9 o'clock positions and they'll appear there, and you can switch between sample sets using cue points, rather than having to have all your samples arranged beforehand. Like making your own skipless record. Would make jamming with bands a fuckton easier.


God I want this too. Flip was a cool step in the right direction of having basic editing features in DVS but it's such a hassle to open a DAW every time I just want to combine a couple files together.

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#8 arkei

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:20 PM

I will think about it. All I know is that it needs a Ruck certified Mind-Ray-Function of some sort...

#9 DJ Rock Well

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:53 PM

I totally hear you DVS, it's definitely not all the way where it needs to be yet, but I figured that 'bring out a new DVS system that's better than all the others' wouldn't be helpful here. Unless you're actually working with a company that makes a DVS system, in that case...

I do agree that lots of DJs are using all manner of different kit and having better universal protocols that allow them to easily work together would be great. I know they tell us that they have to have their own ones to get the best performance, but I'm sure that selling you all their own equipment is also on most manufacturers minds.
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#10 djdiggla

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:33 PM

I've been working on getting the chance to develop DJ products with a company for a while, and it looks like I might get that chance. I'm guessing that if we actually work on something, it will be something with a smaller price point like a few hundred dollars for now. It probably won't be anything big like a new mixer or turntables... But they do have a lot of effects algorithms and controller patents and available.

I'm just trying to brainstorm some ideas for cool stuff that I'd like to see/they would see the point of making. Obviously don't give me any ideas that you don't want to have stolen without compensation haha. I'm treating it like a chance to *maybe* create a useful product for turntablists that might not exist otherwise.

 

All I want is a KP3 with unlimited length loops (or at least 40... or even 32 bars) and a foot pedal to start/stop recording. Everything else is perfect with it: The loops are actually independent (unlike the Electro-Harmonix loopers) and it has unique "bar" loops with really solid auto stretch and MIDI sync (unlike Boss). 

 

Only other thing I'd really be interested in is essentially a VCI-380 that's built a little better. It's the perfect size tho and has everything I need for DJing. The knobs and faders (esp the pitch) are all pretty shit feeling though.  


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#11 Deft

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 02:50 PM

Also how about the ability to record DVS movements and edit them like you can with MIDI? Would be great for cleaning up mistakes and as a teaching tool.

 

I've always thought this would be nice (but very niche) thing as a plugin or standalone sampler. Loads of scratches and patterns pre-made for dropping samples on to - just like an instrument library.


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#12 Mutis Mayfield

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 02:53 PM

Yeah especially now we have the rane 12 it seems the limitation is software rather than hardware.I'd love to see DVS software where you can just drag samples onto 12/3/6/9 o'clock positions and they'll appear there, and you can switch between sample sets using cue points, rather than having to have all your samples arranged beforehand. Like making your own skipless record. Would make jamming with bands a fuckton easier.Also how about the ability to record DVS movements and edit them like you can with MIDI? Would be great for cleaning up mistakes and as a teaching tool.

The first could fit in the turntable groovebox concept I will love to see happens some day. Atm you can do it with traktor and remix decks. Since these are now secuenceable you can build your own skip warp thing.

The second one was already done and even gone open sourced most of it but never really took off. If there is a real interest in something like that I'm all ears (but I agree with Rock this should be sold to NI, Rane or Pioneer to be implemented inside their own)

I managed to Aaron Faulstich implement Ms. Pinky vinyl sdk into its skratcher tool
https://youtu.be/R4W9l0WmL6M
Check the comments

So he done it and the result was turntable surgeon. There was another video but seems removed from yt
https://youtu.be/A1rECkUjX0U

So Ramon Mathis who known the ideas behind turntable surgeon were mine contact me for his degree thesys and made an improvement. Finally recruit Aaron too.
http://skrat.ch/index.php

It was a video but it hasn't sound (due to setup) and seems also removed (not sure if something is in the works since I left the project)
I have a copy if someone wants to check it. That's one of my motivations to share my r&d resources at gdrive.
https://drive.google...M1MxdmVOcDdScnc


In the meantime some contacts with the people of scratchML has been done. I try to help the most as I can in the building of a "blackbox" (independent unit to decode vinyl vector for draw these ttm).
http://fffff.at/scra...p-language-sml/

https://groups.googl...forum/scratchml
https://github.com/scratchml

Ramon was still working in something but to know what, just drop a mail asking him. I finally left the attempt since it wasn't going any further and I was putting too much energy to make a living but it doesn't seems possible almost at that time.

Cdx/ttm1 digitalization was part of that effort but life goes on and I don't think there is money or true interest from brands in turtablism development. Sorry about being negative, it was a painful experience involving personal issues... but if someone is interested I'm ears as I said.

At this point I just don't care about "stolen" my ideas. Ideas float in the Oonosphere and without resources I'm just a madman asking for a buck to diner. I have so many ideas that time to time I need to force myself to forget some of them before these hurt my soul again. It's painful when I don't see them happen or made (like the ttm software) by Rane 6 years later with price I can't afford. The ttm software I realized in my mind when I see ttm for the firet time in scratch the movie. By these time (2003/2004) I was messing with the first Maxmsp windows version to make work Ms. Pinky. I managed to make it working over win xp and Sound Blaster Audigy with Asio4all. I realized too that if I can see something in my mind with the proper resources and motivation I can make it happen. I don't believe there are resources to make this happen but also my motivation was lost somewhere... at least I'm the sampler guy who gone controllerism (tooltablism) more or less when Moldover/Ean Golden started that shit. I tried to fix the war with Tooltablism concept (where every tool has its place). Years later I still have to read Controltablism and missconceptions like that. As Bruce lee said about its JKD "it's just a name. Don't let it separate the nation under stars than human being are". Anyways I was never too much popular in any place lol

About scratch recorder (aka realtime automation) I think Traktor will bring something like this somewhere in the future as Serato Mixtape feature on stereoids. The same way lthey did with Ms pinky Ableton m4l patch (ejem) and remix decks. I just hope they make it availabe for iOS too since I don't have computer (well I don't have turntables neither aside the broke cdx).

Meanwhile you can use Scratch track vst to scratch and draw automation inside any DAW like Ableton.
http://djtechtools.c...cratch-track-3/

Once again I shared my thoughts with Aaron Leese which add some of them in its apps.

#13 Mutis Mayfield

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 02:54 PM

Someday I will understand how the hell embedding videos in this forum works. It's still a mistery to me XD
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#14 Jam Burglar

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 03:39 PM

These go beyond just turntablism but I'd like to see an effects hub that can handle and stack multiple pedals and effects processors, independent volume and wet/dry for each loop.  Also wouldn't mind more hardware routing options.  



#15 Mutis Mayfield

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 03:42 PM

These go beyond just turntablism but I'd like to see an effects hub that can handle and stack multiple pedals and effects processors, independent volume and wet/dry for each loop.  Also wouldn't mind more hardware routing options.

This?
http://www.sourceaud...-effects-system

Editing my previous post to add scratch track plugin I remembered that stagecraft software apps has interesting fx routing.
I understand these could be interesting as experimental tool. Maybe it worth a look for you...

https://youtu.be/4UO7VNysgHs
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#16 Jam Burglar

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:40 PM

 

These go beyond just turntablism but I'd like to see an effects hub that can handle and stack multiple pedals and effects processors, independent volume and wet/dry for each loop.  Also wouldn't mind more hardware routing options.

This?
http://www.sourceaud...-effects-system


 

 

Kind of, but wouldn't really work for me since I tend to use various types of efx pedals/efx units.  That one looks like it's only for that specific manufacturer's effects pedals.

 

What made me bring it up was Vekked saying how turntablist rigs tend to be kind of Frankensteinish.  That's definitely true for me and I end up looking for ways to link things together.  At some point I may buy a 16 channel mixing board.  That would probably handle a lot of my issues but would also be overkill.


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#17 Mutis Mayfield

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:42 PM

And modular mixer like those doepfer, Pittsburg and so? I wondered sometimes for my dub wet dreams...

#18 broke

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 05:16 AM

Yes this sounds exciting. There definitely aren't many products out there for djs in 2017.


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#19 Vekked

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 05:49 AM

Yes this sounds exciting. There definitely aren't many products out there for djs in 2017.


You should be excited, the first product is a standalone portable scratch looper that syncs to a cloud and automatically notifies senior citizen battle DJs when to take their meds so they don't get caught up in a scratch session and forget. PT01 mounts for wheelchairs and walkers soon after.
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#20 Dan

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:42 AM

 

Also how about the ability to record DVS movements and edit them like you can with MIDI? Would be great for cleaning up mistakes and as a teaching tool.

 

I've always thought this would be nice (but very niche) thing as a plugin or standalone sampler. Loads of scratches and patterns pre-made for dropping samples on to - just like an instrument library.

 

 

Isn't that what "The Bridge" does/did? 


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