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Hoooowwww does he do that?


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i personally arnt that impressed by it, i would kinda get annoyd in a club if a dj did that for 5 mins.

 

Not as annoyed as if someone juggled for 5 mins ...

 

Guess I'm a sucker for cleanliness, that's why I think this is so impressive. I'd much rather see something simple done perfectly than some complex techy shit done poorly.

 

Like if you watch the second video he does it again, but always brings it back to a different part of the record. So he's looping but slowly moving through the record. I always thought of this as trick mixing not juggling at all.

 

Would love to see a vid Elgee! Post a phile!

 

lolz i havnt done juggles in about 3 years, i would love to see a file of myself too.

 

i got old old juggles on utube but dont really do much anymore.

used only do juggles and never really cut but now its the other way round, too lazy

and old to be juggling now.

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piont a - we should all get into juggling again and bring it back hard - juggle battle in the future??

 

point b - jon's only been juggling 2 years??? what the fuck dude you quick learning-dmc-ranking muthafuckaa

 

point c - i'm gonna refuse to believe anything Jimmys said in this thread without videos!! vids or it didnt happen

(ps - i'm actually genuinely interested too)

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I could do loops and doubling before then, but nothing involving any sort of beat rearranging. I started trying to learn properly two or three months before I did supremacy in 2010, so about 20 months ago. I love juggling at the moment and probably practice it more than scratching.

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Re. The chasing thing... ill try explain how I know what's coming

 

If u have the first bar down the next step is reasonably easy.. say in your first patten ( how ever many bars before it repeats in the beat) the kick falls on 12 oclock n snare on 3.30, n so on. Learn the 'times' that each beat plays at. Play through your first pattern then look down at what time the next pattern kick starts. If its now at 3 u know the snare is at 6.30 n so on through that pattern... roughly enough anyways... every time the beat repeats look down and note the new time, n the work realive to that new start postion... hope that makes sense.

 

I'm no juggle master, I barely do it these days as find I'm just going through old school patterns again n again. Didn't tom do a great juggle tutorial ?

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On the roc Raida Sucker MCs one he breaks it down with a different colour sticker for where the kick is and where various snares are. That was how I originally thought you stickered up records: lots of stickers - one for each sound.

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I don't think some of you are understanding what Dooban is asking and I think he is bang on. Also for you all saying you can do what J Rocc does dead easy I think yall are deluded. Sure you can do do every individual trick he does. They are easy. Trebling up on the snares etc. However that is not what is impressive about what J Rocc is doing. What is impressive is that he does it completely flawlessly, keeps it interesting, rocks it all through the record and pretty much keeps it as tight as the original record. I can double up with trails, triples etc. easy, but it sure as shit ain't like when J Rocc does it.

 

@Doob. It is definitely just about practice and more practice though. You just have to get obsessed with it and it becomes second nature. Almost like muscle memory.

I'm not sure if Matman still posts here but he is amazing at this shit. Like, literally one of the best I have seen at trick mixing and DJing with skills. You should hit him up.

 

P.S. Jimmy. Post a file beyatch.

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I don't think some of you are understanding what Dooban is asking and I think he is bang on. Also for you all saying you can do what J Rocc does dead easy I think yall are deluded. Sure you can do do every individual trick he does. They are easy. Trebling up on the snares etc. However that is not what is impressive about what J Rocc is doing. What is impressive is that he does it completely flawlessly, keeps it interesting, rocks it all through the record and pretty much keeps it as tight as the original record. I can double up with trails, triples etc. easy, but it sure as shit ain't like when J Rocc does it.

 

I was going to post something similar in response to Dopp as I thought there was a bit of confusion. I thought Dopp was describing loop based juggling, as opposed to trickmixing throughout a whole song. The indivdual tricks are simple but doing them flawlessly through the record with only a couple of reference stickers and no serato is hella hard.

@ Doob- I'd reiterate what I said about watching how where beats drop on the record visually and see how they eventually fall back in place, and try and work out a visual system. Or learn to do it on the fly by watching the stickers and listening to record simultaneously. I can only really do that of stuff in serato where I can see the wave forms, but nowhere as flawlessly as J Rocc

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dont think a single person said they can sound exactly the same j rocc on this whole thread, we just said we can do what he is doing.

 

two different things mate.

 

saying i can do autobahns is not saying im as good as rafik at them, lol

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I don't think some of you are understanding what Dooban is asking and I think he is bang on. Also for you all saying you can do what J Rocc does dead easy I think yall are deluded. Sure you can do do every individual trick he does. They are easy. Trebling up on the snares etc. However that is not what is impressive about what J Rocc is doing. What is impressive is that he does it completely flawlessly, keeps it interesting, rocks it all through the record and pretty much keeps it as tight as the original record. I can double up with trails, triples etc. easy, but it sure as shit ain't like when J Rocc does it.

 

@Doob. It is definitely just about practice and more practice though. You just have to get obsessed with it and it becomes second nature. Almost like muscle memory.

I'm not sure if Matman still posts here but he is amazing at this shit. Like, literally one of the best I have seen at trick mixing and DJing with skills. You should hit him up.

 

P.S. Jimmy. Post a file beyatch.

 

THIS AND ABSOLUTELY MORE OF THIS...

you guys , jim and el gee in particular, are certainly deluded if you think you can do anything close to what JROCC does.

nobody on the planet can do it like he does except for maybe MeloD. seriously if there's footage or anyone you've seen please reference it. no other djs i've ever seen come close...

Its waaay harder to do what he's doin than to make up a your average routine style juggle.

try juggling and keepin a dancefloor hoppin while being as active and interesting as he is...

 

those are like the first things i learnt, and then i moved onto patterns etc.

 

BONKERS

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The first vid doesn't have much to do with beat juggling really. It's all trick mixing stuff, joe cooley ripped some really dope/ahead of his time trick mixing stuff like that in 87 with a kraftwerk track. J. Rocc is one of the best at this and he switches between styles really fluently so it seems way harder than you'd think. Most of what he's doing, or at least the interesting/technical part of it, can be done just touching the side you're cutting on. He's basically just looping the other side every so often.

 

In order to do what he's doing you have to start at the basics, so I'd learn in this order:

 

1) Have 1 track playing on your non-cutting side, drop the right side 1 beat after the other side and go back and forth catching every second 1/4 note, to give you "kick, kick, snare, snare, kick, kick, snare, snare". You don't touch either record after you release the 2nd one.

 

2) Have 1 track playing on your non-cutting side, and hold the first beat (probably a kick) on the other side. Release the kick/cut out the other side between beats, so the same fader action as in step 1, but you're bringing back the 1st kick and only hitting that between every beat, as opposed to letting it play, to give you "kick, kick, snare, kick, kick, kick, snare". You're only hitting the first beat on the side you're cutting.

 

3) This is where it gets tricky. Have 1 track playing on your non-cutting side, and drop the first beat on the other side and move the fader back and forth once like the start of step 1 or step 2. Now instead of bringing it back to the 1st beat like in step 2, you're going to do the same technique on the snare, then the next beat, then the next snare. This will give you "kick, kick, snare, snare, snare, kick, kick, kick, snare, snare, snare" (ok this one really depends on the beat you're using, it will sound really different depending on the beats, but the point is that your cutting record is moving 1 beat forward every time you move the fader back and forth, so you're steadily going through the beat).

 

Maybe I can post a vid when I get back to my decks, hopefully in the next couple days. It's definitely more of a scratch-based/beat cutting technique than beat juggling. There's probably a lot of people who can trick mix like maniacs and can't beat juggle at all, or can beat juggle really sick but can't do anything J. Rocc's doing here. I learned by copying J. Rocc's Scratchcon vid, and copying Total Eclipse who does a faster/less varied version sometimes.

 

So yea, if you want to learn how to do that you don't really need to learn to beat juggle/use doubles except for the looping he's doing, everything else is basically scratching but it's definitely different than just cutting samples over beats and takes some getting used to.

 

Yoshi - triple 3d's = tripling the beats, basically what Total E does a lot in his classic routines. It's kind of an extension of what J. Rocc's doing in a way.

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THIS AND ABSOLUTELY MORE OF THIS...

you guys , jim and el gee in particular, are certainly deluded if you think you can do anything close to what JROCC does.

nobody on the planet can do it like he does except for maybe MeloD. seriously if there's footage or anyone you've seen please reference it. no other djs i've ever seen come close...

Its waaay harder to do what he's doin than to make up a your average routine style juggle.

try juggling and keepin a dancefloor hoppin while being as active and interesting as he is...

 

I agree to some extent. I think that there are people who can def do what J. Rocc's doing in the first vid or the Scratchcon vid these days, and technically it's not super difficult, but yea his style is amazing and it's super hard to just flip it so flawlessly and varied like him. I've def seen him do way more complex/crazier trick mixing than this vid, and I don't think I've seen anyone do it like that. Check the beat junkies 20th anniversary rane vid, he goes crazy in that.

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THIS AND ABSOLUTELY MORE OF THIS...

you guys , jim and el gee in particular, are certainly deluded if you think you can do anything close to what JROCC does.

nobody on the planet can do it like he does except for maybe MeloD. seriously if there's footage or anyone you've seen please reference it. no other djs i've ever seen come close...

Its waaay harder to do what he's doin than to make up a your average routine style juggle.

try juggling and keepin a dancefloor hoppin while being as active and interesting as he is...

 

I agree to some extent. I think that there are people who can def do what J. Rocc's doing in the first vid or the Scratchcon vid these days, and technically it's not super difficult, but yea his style is amazing and it's super hard to just flip it so flawlessly and varied like him. I've def seen him do way more complex/crazier trick mixing than this vid, and I don't think I've seen anyone do it like that. Check the beat junkies 20th anniversary rane vid, he goes crazy in that.

 

Not seen that, got any links? I've not heard of that even

 

Thanks for the response by the way.

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THIS AND ABSOLUTELY MORE OF THIS...

you guys , jim and el gee in particular, are certainly deluded if you think you can do anything close to what JROCC does.

nobody on the planet can do it like he does except for maybe MeloD. seriously if there's footage or anyone you've seen please reference it. no other djs i've ever seen come close...

Its waaay harder to do what he's doin than to make up a your average routine style juggle.

try juggling and keepin a dancefloor hoppin while being as active and interesting as he is...

 

I agree to some extent. I think that there are people who can def do what J. Rocc's doing in the first vid or the Scratchcon vid these days, and technically it's not super difficult, but yea his style is amazing and it's super hard to just flip it so flawlessly and varied like him. I've def seen him do way more complex/crazier trick mixing than this vid, and I don't think I've seen anyone do it like that. Check the beat junkies 20th anniversary rane vid, he goes crazy in that.

 

Not seen that, got any links? I've not heard of that even

 

Thanks for the response by the way.

 

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i think a few people have misunderstood what i tried to say - i never said i could do what he's doing, i said i know what he is doing, and obviously, even if i was a good juggler (which im not) i certainly wouldnt be up to that standard.

 

i think the main confusion here is how people read doob's initial question. i read it as how is a juggle like this done, not, how does j rocc get so good. either way, my answer of practice still stands either way.

 

j rocc is the best i've seen at this kind of thing no doubt.

 

EDIT: is that vid really new? (i cant watch it cos im at work, but i can see a screenshot) cos its got that new rane 62 in it. i really wanna see it now!

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Can we get a proper definition of the terms juggling, trick mixing, chasing and looping then? I'm well confused.

 

Looping is just repeating the exact same part of the beat over and over... kind of self-explanatory, just making a loop of any part.

 

Chasing is a beat juggling technique where instead of back spinning to the start of a section at the beginning of your pattern, you keep going throughout the beat, so instead of hitting the 1 beat every 4 or 8 bars, you go "1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9" etc. The pattern slowly progresses from the start of the beat to the end, as opposed to focussing on a certain section over and over.

 

Trick mixing and beat juggling are a bit more vague, since often times in beat juggles there's a lot of trick mixing as well. There are 2 main characteristics that separate them imo:

 

-beat juggling was invented by Steve Dee and came to the public in 1990, so if you take a look at the doubling techniques used by Aladdin, Cash Money, Joe Cooley, or even earlier DJs, that stuff is trick mixing, and things that Steve Dee and other X-ecutioners started doing is beat juggling. Looping isn't beat juggling, doubling while the records play isn't beat juggling, the stuff J. Rocc is doing isn't beat juggling; it all existed before Steve Dee came along. I don't think it's just arbitrarily "anything Steve Dee did is beat juggling", but going back and checking the progress in the order that it came out like in DMC and NMS battles it's pretty easy to see that Steve Dee was doing it much differently, and the techniques have a different purpose.

 

-secondly, in general I think the purpose of beat juggling is to make a new beat out of the beat you're juggling, like you're trying to re-program it or something like you're producing with doubles. Trick mixing mostly keeps the same sound and just spices it up a bit. I'd argue that 90% of patterns that keep the same tempo of the original beat are trick mixing, and 100% of patterns that slow the original beat down, speed it up, or add swing, are beat juggling. Patterns that keep the original tempo but really change how the beat is structured like some of Steve Dee's 1-2 patterns and Total Eclipse's tripling patterns I'd say are beat juggling.

 

Both techniques involve using doubles, but I think the difference can be found in "why" the technique is being used most of the time; whether it's being used to compose a new rhythm or is simply being used for variation in the existing rhythm.

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