The end of Serato?

[djdiggla]

just my two cents, its all down to personal preference but i wanted to get on the NI bandwagon now as i reckon it will be the industry standard soon enough

 

I highly doubt that. No touring North American DJ I've ever seen uses anything but Serato. I know because my friend is a major promoter.

 

 

even Atrak said himself both serve different purposes, so he still uses both.

The different purpose being, Serato he uses cause he likes it. NI he uses because they pay him. FLOL.

 

This thread has honestly made me more interested in exploring NI in the future, but i think you hit it right on the head, Abbot... NI is more attractive for EDM DJs and "performers" while Serato is for hiphop DJs and turntablists.

 

Frankly tho, I still can't get over the auto-sync. IMO having an auto-sync really makes the whole thing seem like it's just not for me at all in any way... it's is as whack as the Samurai mixer and craps on all the good features by blatantly tailoring to retards and n00bs. I'd be almost embarrassed to be seen using it. But then again I also vehemently opposed DVS in general for a long time so who knows...

[djdiggla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHlqHlD-Op8&feature=relmfu [

 

Interesting vid but seems like The Bridge can do all the same stuff... and more, really (either as separate programs or in unison). Not to mention in the States at least, i'd say both Ableton and Serato are more common for any DJ/producer than anything else.

 

 

 

One thing I keep thinking about too is all the TI vids I see are 2 mins of action packed sickness... but only 2 mins. What DJs play for just 2 mins??? ...What i'm saying is I really can't think of many people (if anybody) that could do hours long sets of the type of stuff in these NI vids... The NI vids seem like battle routines, not DJ sets... the Bridge vids seem less hype but more reasonable about what an actual DJ could be doing all night long. And it's very cool at that. I mean shit, you gonna buy all this NI gear to do the equivalent of digital battle routines? Realllly????

[Dubba Dutchdj]

Oh no don't get me started on "The Bodge", apart from host third party plugs in's and the mix tape cheat thing The Bodge doesn't give you any more features Traktor can do by itself, giving you everything The Bodge can do without having to run 3 separate pieces of softwares at the same time, the new rmx decks is basically Ableton style clip launching but unlike The Bridge, Traktor allows you to scratch the sample/clips.

 

Is the Bridge something you can run on any old computer? running Ableton alone aint the most stable thing let alone alongside Serato. My routine above was made on a knackered old non pro Macbook and Traktor does all this for the entry level of £299 where as you got to drop nearly three times that to access to The Bridge.

 

I hear ya on the NI hype machine, but it sounds more like an engraved hatred of NI has really got a hold of you, yes there just battle style routines but that certainly doesn't mean thats all it's capable of. Traktor could achieve both of those vids that are using the bridge at a less than half price.

 

Audio 6 + F1 = £450

 

Ableton + Serato + Akai APC 40 = £1.000.000

Edited April 4, 2012 by Dubba Dutchdj

[Vekked]

I barely even wanna reply here b/c I don't really have an opinion either way (love serato/never tried traktor), but diggla needs some sonnin'.

 

I highly doubt that. No touring North American DJ I've ever seen uses anything but Serato. I know because my friend is a major promoter.

 

Def not true. I mean nearly everyone I know personally uses Serato, but out of 15-20 touring DJs who's setups I've got to see in the last couple years when they've come through my city, I'd say nearly half use Traktor. A-trak, Klever, and Craze all used it when I seen them, and almost every dubstep DJ that's came through seems to be using it. Obviously 15-20 DJs isn't a huge sample size but it's enough to prove that there's clearly touring North American DJs that use Traktor. I know because I've seen them with my eyeballs.

 

even Atrak said himself both serve different purposes, so he still uses both.

The different purpose being, Serato he uses cause he likes it. NI he uses because they pay him. FLOL.

 

http://serato.com/artists/atrak

 

+

 

http://serato.com/fo...scussion/589345

 

+

 

when I saw him ~3 weeks ago he was using Traktor as well, and another DJ buddy said he was using it when he saw him a couple months ago. We both were a bit confused because as far as he and I knew he was sponsored by Serato. So the evidence seems to point to the exact opposite of what you said, although I guess it's not impossible that his Serato artist page is out of date and he got picked up by NI.

[d00ban]

Oh no don't get me started on "The Bodge", apart from host third party plugs in's and the mix tape cheat thing The Bodge doesn't give you any more features Traktor can do by itself, giving you everything The Bodge can do without having to run 3 separate pieces of softwares at the same time, the new rmx decks is basically Ableton style clip launching but unlike The Bridge, Traktor allows you to scratch the sample/clips.

 

Is the Bridge something you can run on any old computer? running Ableton alone aint the most stable thing let alone alongside Serato. My routine above was made on a knackered old non pro Macbook and Traktor does all this for the entry level of £299 where as you got to drop nearly three times that to access to The Bridge.

 

I hear ya on the NI hype machine, but it sounds more like an engraved hatred of NI has really got a hold of you, yes there just battle style routines but that certainly doesn't mean thats all it's capable of. Traktor could achieve both of those vids that are using the bridge at a less than half price.

 

Audio 6 + F1 = £450

 

Ableton + Serato + Akai APC 40 = £1.000.000

 

To be fair you can get ableton for free quite easily

[doppelkorn]

FWIW Dirk, and I can't stress enough how little I care, I only use Traktor as a means of playing tunes. Any and all of my mixing is done via the decks so I don't auto-sync and I don't really use the Traktor BPMs because they're more often wrong than right. If I had Serato I'd use it in exactly the same way I reckon.

[d00ban]

FWIW Dirk, and I can't stress enough how little I care, I only use Traktor as a means of playing tunes. Any and all of my mixing is done via the decks so I don't auto-sync and I don't really use the Traktor BPMs because they're more often wrong than right. If I had Serato I'd use it in exactly the same way I reckon.

 

Except all your BPM's would be right PMSLOTRON

[doppelkorn]

IKR?!?!?!

[Jimmy]

FWIW Dirk, and I can't stress enough how little I care, I only use Traktor as a means of playing tunes. Any and all of my mixing is done via the decks so I don't auto-sync and I don't really use the Traktor BPMs because they're more often wrong than right. If I had Serato I'd use it in exactly the same way I reckon.

 

Except all your BPM's would be right PMSLOTRON

 

i've never had a problem with my serato bpm. if i mix without looking at the screen, i'll double check to see how close the serato is or i am out of curiosity and we match up pretty much everytime.

 

and i kno its different for hiphop or funk, but i dont play that so i dont care.

[doppelkorn]

and i kno its different for hiphop or funk, but i dont play that so i dont care.

 

Thanks for that. It's easier to derive the BPM for a waveform with identifiable, regular peaks, such as one might find in, say EDM than it is in a muddy northern soul record.

[d00ban]

FWIW Dirk, and I can't stress enough how little I care, I only use Traktor as a means of playing tunes. Any and all of my mixing is done via the decks so I don't auto-sync and I don't really use the Traktor BPMs because they're more often wrong than right. If I had Serato I'd use it in exactly the same way I reckon.

 

Except all your BPM's would be right PMSLOTRON

 

i've never had a problem with my serato bpm. if i mix without looking at the screen, i'll double check to see how close the serato is or i am out of curiosity and we match up pretty much everytime.

 

and i kno its different for hiphop or funk, but i dont play that so i dont care.

 

Read this again Kimbly, I'm saying they would be right (as opposed to if you used Traktor)

 

I find serato pretty good at getting BPM's too, sometimes its double or halved but that's easily fixed with the old Alt+up/down trick

[Jimmy]

FWIW Dirk, and I can't stress enough how little I care, I only use Traktor as a means of playing tunes. Any and all of my mixing is done via the decks so I don't auto-sync and I don't really use the Traktor BPMs because they're more often wrong than right. If I had Serato I'd use it in exactly the same way I reckon.

 

Except all your BPM's would be right PMSLOTRON

 

i've never had a problem with my serato bpm. if i mix without looking at the screen, i'll double check to see how close the serato is or i am out of curiosity and we match up pretty much everytime.

 

and i kno its different for hiphop or funk, but i dont play that so i dont care.

 

Read this again Kimbly, I'm saying they would be right (as opposed to if you used Traktor)

 

I find serato pretty good at getting BPM's too, sometimes its double or halved but that's easily fixed with the old Alt+up/down trick

 

yeh i kno, i was trying to reinforce your statement, but wanted to quote dopp.

i could've done a better job of that.

[doppelkorn]

could of

[Jimmy]

its could HAVE you spaz!

[doppelkorn]

[djdiggla]

Def not true. I mean nearly everyone I know personally uses Serato, but out of 15-20 touring DJs who's setups I've got to see in the last couple years when they've come through my city, I'd say nearly half use Traktor. A-trak, Klever, and Craze all used it when I seen them, and almost every dubstep DJ that's came through seems to be using it. Obviously 15-20 DJs isn't a huge sample size but it's enough to prove that there's clearly touring North American DJs that use Traktor. I know because I've seen them with my eyeballs.

 

Yeah, maybe people are switching over. I haven't seen those three in maybe 3-4 years but I recall they were using Serato at the time--could be wrong tho. This was of course before they got *paid* to switch to Traktor... sooooo... like I said above about A-Track--using it because they prefer it or because they are paid to like it??? Everyone I've seen tho including DJs for hiphop acts durring SXSW were all using Serato (at least the ones I looked at were--probably some of the EDM DJs were not). I think NickNack has bought Traktor a couple years back but still uses both. He wanted it for the sound quality which is a sensible reason.

 

Like I said tho, NI is defo cheaper. I think I only paid $300ish for Serato but that was a long time ago. If I was starting over today I'd either buy NI for the price or a Rane SL mixer and go with Serato. But probably NI for the cheapness.

 

 

 

Oh no don't get me started on "The Bodge", apart from host third party plugs in's and the mix tape cheat thing The Bodge doesn't give you any more features Traktor can do by itself, giving you everything The Bodge can do without having to run 3 separate pieces of softwares at the same time, the new rmx decks is basically Ableton style clip launching but unlike The Bridge, Traktor allows you to scratch the sample/clips.

 

Is the Bridge something you can run on any old computer? running Ableton alone aint the most stable thing let alone alongside Serato. My routine above was made on a knackered old non pro Macbook and Traktor does all this for the entry level of £299 where as you got to drop nearly three times that to access to The Bridge.

 

I hear ya on the NI hype machine, but it sounds more like an engraved hatred of NI has really got a hold of you, yes there just battle style routines but that certainly doesn't mean thats all it's capable of. Traktor could achieve both of those vids that are using the bridge at a less than half price.

 

Audio 6 + F1 = £450

 

Ableton + Serato + Akai APC 40 = £1.000.000

 

You're kinda missing the point. Ableton is more powerful than Serato or Traktor. Most people have it entirely on their own aside from DJing. So with it and Serato you can be blending your production and DJ sets, remixing and also do a lot of the features Tracktor offers (plus video, which they don't currently offer). From what I've seen, you can do more with Traktor than just Serato, but you can do more with the Bridge than Traktor.

 

It's funny that you consider the mixtape feature a "cheat" but consider the auto beatmatch a great feature. I guess multi-tracked mixes are cheating too? FLOL. Sounds like you're jealous of that feature.

 

It's also funny that you are all hard up on the price tag as such a thing.... but use a Mac. LOL. Made me chuckle. Why not a PC bro? They have tons more features and are much cheaper for a much faster machine. LOL... Serato is the Mac of DVS, anyways.....

 

You're right tho, Traktor could achieve both those vids for half the price... but you are still assuming people buy Ableton and Serato to just to do some gimmicky psudo-DJ ish. They don't. You get a shit ton more from Ableton in general than you ever would from everything NI. And that's just half the equation. Then couple that with Serato and be doing a productor/remix DJ set = DAMN. Pretty ill. It's totally different and a lot deeper than NI from what I can see. AND you can do video. Which is what every gigging DJ I know is switching to.

 

As far as your video remix thing...it was sloppy as fuck. The drumming was horrible. Nobody was gonna say it because the people here are pretty nice but it's true. Maybe you should quit fucking around with shit gimmicks and NI controllers and get down your basic skills first. Cause it was bad. And this is the shit I'm talking about. Traktor has all these (somewhat pointless) features that most people don't have the skill to even use... and now we gotta listen to endless crap button-pusher DJ sets. God save me.

 

All this aside tho, like I've said the whole time... If I was starting from scratch today I'd probably buy Traktor for the price alone (unless I was doing video or Ableton/Bridge stuff -- which I'm not or unless I needed a new mixer -- which I don't). The price alone would be the factor tho--not all the gimmicks. But I sure as hell am not gonna sell Serato to switch to Traktor unless I really see a great reason to do so--which I don't, frankly. At least not yet. Serato works good. Has never crashed on me. And has more feature than I or most any DJ needs.

[doppelkorn]

 

Dirk goin in h0ard again.

 

The only person who can answer this properly is Chris.

[djdiggla]

Yeah! Where's Chris or Giz to weigh in???

[doppelkorn]

ALSO while you're here you can apologise for calling me whack a few pages back.

 

I'm one of the few gigging DJs on here THANKYEWVERYMUCH. Beatmatch by ear no less.

[djdiggla]

I'm sorry. XO.

[Chris]

Traktor's all about the mapping potential. You just plain can't do what makes Traktor cool in a Serato product, so it wins by default if your use case revolves around it (if you use a generic controller you want to map to your own needs, for instance). That said, Traktor's mapping editor might be powerful but it's a nightmare to use, and ironically you can't make it do some of the coolest things that Serato products do anyway.

 

In my eyes, it's very much a swings and roundabouts situation. If Scratch Live or a particular Itch controller do everything you need, you'll probably be worse off for switching to Traktor - and if you use Traktor extensively but are envious of a couple of Serato exclusive features, you probably can't switch because you'll lose something that your workflow revolves around. There are a bunch of users that use Traktor at a very basic level that would probably be just as happy with SSL/an Itch controller, though.

 

Another thing about the price is that the audio interface bundles are still a considerable cost, but the TA6 is a better card than the SL2 and the TA10 is definitely better than the SL3. The SL4 is fantastic but it's very expensive and has no MIDI i/o... which may or may not matter to you.

 

It's not going to be Serato that feel the pinch on this, because the market is big enough for NI and Serato. It's people like Virtual DJ, whose VDJ8 is around the corner and VDJ7 costs more than what Traktor Pro even used to cost, EKS, whose The One will now have some tough decisions to make if they want to ever release it and see any return, and presumably this will be the final nail in the coffin for Torq. I don't think I even saw Torq at the Avid stands at Messe this year.

 

I want a Vestax VCI380 so bad, but it's just ever so slightly too small. The VCI400 is a beast, but there are some super cool features that Itch blesses the 380 with that I am currently really stuck trying to figure out how I could map to the 400. Either way I have to make a sacrifice... and I'd be hard pressed to choose at the moment. My head says 400, my heart says 380.

[Dubba Dutchdj]

Well that told me, you could at least moisten the tip before you ram it in! I'm not sure how I touched a nerve but it certainly wasn't my intention. I only brought up the price thing as you did in regards to NI hardware. I'm well aware Ableton can do a ton of stuff it's a full on DAW, I was just making a valid point that Traktor has many of Ableton's performance aspects.

 

To be honest I'm not sure how I feel about the mix tape thing, I don't feel that strongly about it either way. Traktor's sync is far from perfect when used with DVS as it rely's heavily on accurate grids, I personally don't like it because I prefer the turntable pitch fade to be in the "real" position. And of course anyone who calls them selfs a dj should be able to mix by ear. I don't think it's unfair to claim that Serato's parallel waveforms is a much better tool for beatmatching than Traktors sync.

 

As I said in my first comment, it's funny how many go in to tribal rivalry over a bit of dj software, I'm off now to lick my wounds and practise my baby scratch's.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Dubba Dutchdj

[djdiggla]

Chris comes thru in the pinch

[djdiggla]

Well that told me, you could at least moisten the tip before you ram it in! I'm not sure how I touched a nerve but it certainly wasn't my intention. I only brought up the price thing as you did in regards to NI hardware. I'm well aware Ableton can do a ton of stuff it's a full on DAW, I was just making a valid point that Traktor has many of Ableton's performance aspects.

 

To be honest I'm not sure how I feel about the mix tape thing, I don't feel that strongly about it either way. Traktor's sync is far from perfect when used with DVS as it rely's heavily on accurate grids, I personally don't like it because I prefer the turntable pitch to be in the "real" position. And of course anyone who calls them selfs a dj should be able to mix by ear. I don't think it's unfair to claim that Serato's parallel waveforms is a much better tool for beatmatching than Traktors sync.

 

As I said in my first comment, it's funny how many go in to tribal rivalry over a bit of dj software, I'm off now to lick my wounds and practise my baby scratch's.

 

Sorry I came at ya so hard. Got a little too wrapped up in the discussion.

[d00ban]

You should hear dirka on the pads, he's even worse!