The end of Serato?

[djdiggla]

For me the price makes it competitive for the first time ever -- I'd actually consider buying it. But serato still hands down rules the US market. Also serato has video which IMO is where all DJing is headed. And the more legit hardware as stated. Tractor has positioned themselves to be the new Torq. Entry level gear (but higher quality.) Torq is gonna suffer far more that Serato from this. Also, if I was a previous user nit getting an upgrade I'd be super mad. I think Traktor has more to fear from Ableton that Serato from Tractor. The only DJs I know that use Traktor either nerd out on specs or are totally whack (ie. Dopp). Congrads to NI for branding themselves as the new Torq.

 

So you're saying the only people who use Traktor are the ones who've looked at both and made an informed decision to go for Traktor, whereas Serato users but it because it's the market leader? How is Serato's HW more legit? You can use Traktor interfaces as...er...interfaces, whereas Serato boxes have only one function: as Serato boxes.

 

Not like I care or owt

 

I personally think specs mean diddly shit. I bought Stanton Scratch 2 or whatever it was called based on specs. IT WAS SHIT. So I "downgraded" to Serato and have never had a problem in like 8 years or something crazy. With NI there is about 1% of people that can actually have use for the extra decks and features. Most don't at all. It's more geared towards controller DJs IMO than DVS DJs (at least in the US) and all the cool add ons you see in the Craze and Shortee vids are WAY too expensive for it to be worth a shit at all. So really them dropping the price is a bait and switch so you pay $600 for mashine and $200 for the kontrol 1... or straight up pay $900 for the S4.

 

As far as the interface goes... I got a Duet. Why the fuck would I need an NI or Serato box as an interface. And the Rane mixers you don't even need one. Same with Itch. So whatever. Back to what I said---NI has a great quality entry level platform. You get a pretty dang good interface and DJ *software* for a great price. If someone was starting with nothing then it's a great deal and maybe a good idea to build your entire studio around NI gear... I don't think that is most people tho.

 

Really, Serato's software is free. I figure they will drop the price too following this for the box (which is what you are actually paying for) and turn it into a full fledged interface for noobs that need that usage. NI still doesn't have VJing like I said. And almost everything you can do with NI you can do in Ableton (plus a shit ton more)... oh, and what program syncs with Ableton? Oh, right... Serato.

[djdiggla]

Native Instruments are doing this because they have to. It doesn't matter how good the product is if it's not selling as well as the competition.

 

@Sy - The cheapest interface is the Audio 2, which is 99 Euros.

 

Exactly.

 

PS. The Audio 2 is shit. I have it. Crappy bit of overpriced plastic IMO. So, wait... does this mean I can DL Pro for free now? Maybe now someone will actually buy it on eBay!

[d00ban]

ah I see,

 

To be fair I just started this thread as Steve was moaning the other day that not enough people post any thing

 

So yeah, looks like traktor are going down the cheap software, expensive hard ware route (ie controllers)

[Jimmy]

dirka going in hard on traktor! BOOM!

[djdiggla]

and judging what steve is saying, traktor looks like its being aimed at controllers. its ifs not timecoded no wonder is so cheap

 

Exactly! It's aimed at ghey controllerists, not actual DVS using DJs.

[Steve]

NI need to market this shit towards regular DJs. I just watched a demo of 2.5 and it was Shiftee using decks, a mixer and a controller with about a hundred buttons on it and he was doing shit I would never even be able to do even if I wanted to.

 

Every video I watched on YouTube today of their products has comments underneath from people unsure of what it does, or which product they need to buy if they want to do X and Y. That's probably why it's not selling, at least in part.

[djdiggla]

^^Yup. It's like you have to be a DMC winner to even understand it. Not to mention drop a grand for the add on hardware like I already said.

 

dirka going in hard on traktor! BOOM!

 

Team Serato UNITE!

 

[doppelkorn]

I don't really care. I only got Traktor cos the interface was half price. Dirk does care though - DO NOT PISS HIM OFF BY TALKING UP TRAKTOR.

 

I basically use it for playing digital tunes on a deck. I agree with what Steve says about them Traktor videos. They look way too complicated, are not fun to watch and the sound of what is made is fucking horrible noise.

[Steve]

If it was easy to use for the average DJ, I'd be all over it. On paper it does everything I need - and I already know that Serato doesn't do everything I need, cos I own it - yet I'm not convinced enough to buy it.

 

This is the opening blurb of an announcement article I just read: -

 

The new remix decks let users load one-shot samples, loops and audio files in to one of 64 slots, providing massive scope for creating your own remixes, mash-ups and augmenting your DJ sets with your own unique productions. Traktor Pro 2.5 provides up to four remix decks, with users being able to switch one of Traktor’s regular virtual decks to a remix deck. If you find linear deck-to-deck mixing too restricting, this could be the version of Traktor for you.

 

As if that wasn’t enough, Native Instruments is also releasing a new controller that lets you take full advantage of the remix decks. Called the F1, this controller has 16 multicoloured pads, four filter pots and four faders, as well as controls for specific Traktor functions. The F1 looks set to give digital DJs the tactile control they need to control the new remix decks effectively.

 

Forget talking about all that shit. Make it as easy to use as SSL and I'll buy it, you fucking CUNTS!

[Jon]

That's a great price, but I'm so used to Serato Scratch Live's interface and it's shortcuts now that if they weren't very similar in Traktor I wouldn't be able to play the way I do at the moment. I've never really experimented with Traktor long enough to see if I could, but I'm very comfortable in Scratch Live. I prefer using hardware/in built mixer fx over software fx too, so Traktor's fx aren't a huge draw for me either.

 

However, I see tonnes more new DJs choosing Traktor over Scratch Live. Unless they're getting into it from a hip hop angle like most of us, most new/young DJs don't want to spend money on vinyl/vinyl turntables or CD decks (unless they don't already own a laptop- then they will go for CDs and practice at friends' houses). Most download cracked copies of Traktor or virtual DJ and buy a cheap controller. Scratch Live doesn't have auto sync, and so many DJs, even those who can mix, use it as a safety net. For them Traktor is the cheap alternative, they can download the software for free, pay nothing for music and get paid to press auto sync.

 

I used to run my university's DJ society and taught tutorials for them. Out of the new DJs I'd say their choice of equipment would break down like this:

 

5% vinyl

40% CDs

40% traktor/virtual dj

10% serato itch

5% serato scratch live

[doppelkorn]

But auto-sync plain doesn't work with half my tracks! I guess if you're doing EDM though...

[Jon]

But auto-sync plain doesn't work with half my tracks! I guess if you're doing EDM though...

 

If you're mixing stuff with live drums I guess you'd have to warp everything- I think you can do that with beat markers in Traktor? Is that right?

[djdiggla]

Steve -- What doesn't Serato do??

 

DO NOT PISS HIM OFF BY TALKING UP TRAKTOR.

 

DAMN STR8!!!

 

[doppelkorn]

I don't think you can warp tracks, just assign a BPM to them and set the "beat" markers to any start point. The spacing of the markers remains uniform throughout the track though (I think).

[doppelkorn]

Serato doesn't support FLAC

 

[Jon]

Steve -- What doesn't Serato do??

 

more than two deck mixing with VERTICAL waveforms. Fuck a horizontal waveform.

[d00ban]

Steve -- What doesn't Serato do??

Fuck a horizontal waveform.

 

Jon's serato thru and thru biatch

[Steve]

Serato doesn't support FLAC

 

http://replays.pl/plikiboard/0653_homer-eating-popcorn-small-c7873.jpg

 

Yeah, that's basically all I need. All of the lossless music I have is in FLAC format.

 

All I need from a DVS is vinyl emulation that supports my music in the formats that it's already in (which Traktor does). Everything else is just a bonus really - and most of it will never get used anyway.

[Jon]

I was thinking yesterday how even simple stuff like looping and instant doubles made such a difference when I first got Serato. Cue points, loops and in particular instant doubles have completely changed how I DJ. I could never go back to using vinyl full time now.

[djdiggla]

I don't think you can warp tracks, just assign a BPM to them and set the "beat" markers to any start point. The spacing of the markers remains uniform throughout the track though (I think).

 

That would be a cool feature if it worked good and easily. It's kinda anoying to do on Ableton so I just assume it would be similar.

[MadAbbott]

always an interesting topic this one, and my opinion is that NI, due to them being a massive German corporation with much more budget compared to serato being a smaller company from new zealand (as far as im aware) will completely take over the market eventually...but for now, i think peoples opinions will be divided in a similar way to mac vs pc -ie if you're used top one dont bother changing.

I dont think they're dropping the price because they feel threatened, i think its more because they can, and they make a shedload of their ridiculously priced controllers etc.

 

even Atrak said himself both serve different purposes, so he still uses both. Yes you've got video on serato, and its more straightforward, but the hardened traktor heads will tell you its coming NI's way soon enough.

 

I used serato for years but within half an hour of Doubledutch showing me the potential of messing with loops and the live sample deck in traktor, i was sold to the price of 1000£ odd ive probably spent on it so far after controllers etc !! there's so much potential there, and when you combine it with maschine or a controller you're familiar with you barely have to look at the computer screen...wish my laptop hadnt been down for the last few months or id have a lot more to say about it ! ill leave that for doubledutch as hes definitely the traktor expert!

 

so one gripe with traktor, is that the sync makes mixing too easy, well yes, but that gives you so much more freedom to loop and create live on the spot - its really taking djing more into the realms of live perfomances instead of just mixing records. and you can turn that off anyway, so doesn't really seem like a negative argument that point. my only disappointment with traktor is that with hip hop and genres which might not be standard 4/4 structures you have to personally create the beatgrids a lot of the time yourself, and by doing this the sync works and effects and looping etc....this means a lot of preparation for your sets. however if you play dance music etc, the computer does a pretty good job of beat gridding it itself.

 

just my two cents, its all down to personal preference but i wanted to get on the NI bandwagon now as i reckon it will be the industry standard soon enough

Edited April 3, 2012 by MadAbbott

[Dubba Dutchdj]

As I understand the Komplete Audio 6 doesn't operate DVS, just NI confusing things, it's the Traktor Audio 6 you want.

 

I can understand how GUI in full balls out mode can make Traktor look fuck ugly to the unfamiliar eye, but its user definable to the point so even hardened SSL users won't have a stroke when giving it a try. Is the screen grab below really that confusing?

 

 

I nurse a hard on for Traktor, and on regular basis (I might add). Funny how most of us go in to tribal rivalry mode over a bit of dj software. For most Traktor does to much than really needed, in reality when I'm playing out I rarely use more than two decks and a handful of fx, which I reckon is true for 95% of other Traktor users. But when fucking around in the studio with my fellow dj's or jamming along with a band Traktor gives me shed load of options I couldn't do on other DVS.

 

 

I've already made my pre order for the new F1 rmx deck controller, (not "just" because I'm a self confessed NI fan boy) the new features paired with a one to one controller gives piss easy instant access to four pages of 16 samples per a deck in one shot or loop mode. Not something your gonna smash the granny out of thru a whole set, but for live scratch compositions these new rmx decks appear hard to better, especially once you add Traktor's existing ability to post fade sample.

 

VJ and the Rane mixer thing is to be envied, but z germans ain't divs, its just a matter of time for video as not so long ago Skratchworx commented about NI hiring video experts.

 

The supposed Rane 57 beater, the DJM T-1 was a fucking joke effort by Pioneer. The team at Pio responsible for adding stiff line fades and stream line out any possibility to post fade fx or sample on a "battle mixer" really deserve a sound thrashing.

 

It's just a rumour at the mo but Craze Tweeted around the time of Namm about a Vestax Traktor mixer, time will tell on that one but Traktor certainly needs a proper battle mixer and it's definitely about time Vestax make a new flagship battle slag so hopefully the rumour will come good.

 

Sorry for the lengthy ramble x

Edited April 3, 2012 by Dubba Dutchdj

[MadAbbott]

hahaha I knew you wouldn't be able to pass up on this thread!!

[d00ban]

Post a vid!!

 

But yeah you're right, that pic looks just as clean as serato

[Dubba Dutchdj]

Post a vid!!

 

But yeah you're right, that pic looks just as clean as serato

 

I've got one vid of me using the majority of Traktors sample features and a few fx, but I have to add a disclaimer about the content as the musical out put isn't really my bag. The vid was a dj techtools comp entry where ya had to remix any song using a perticularly gay sample pack. For my effort I wanted to squeeze as many technique's as pos in to a short routine, the finger drumming ain't my tightest, but technically I'm pleased with the routine, I now need to make something thats actually pleasurable on the ear.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHlqHlD-Op8&feature=relmfu

 

 

 

 

and when you combine it with maschine or a controller you're familiar with you barely have to look at the computer screen...wish my laptop hadnt been down for the last few months or id have a lot more to say about it !

 

Thats bang on too, it's the best thing about the X1, gives you everything you could want from a DVS companion, leaving you to load the track and forget about the laptop.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Dubba Dutchdj