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People who like hearing mistakes in mixes


Steve

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That whole 'you must only use original press vinyl in a mix' thing is just dick measuring bullshit. I often find that people who make these claims also make drab mixes.

 

Interesting topic. I haven't done a one-take mix in years. I might do one for a laugh and only start again if I REALLY fuck up.

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That whole 'you must only use original press vinyl in a mix' thing is just dick measuring bullshit.

It used to be the same thing with artists like Shadow and others telling people in a highly superior tone how they couldnt have any integrity or truly love the artform if they made records that were not sampling the original pressings which was an utterly laughable statement to make and it pissed me off no end ...

 

Why ..will it make the quality of what you do any greater ?...erm nooo thats down to how you use the samples in the first place and more to the point who can even tell if the records a repress once its been boosted in a track or a mix ?

 

There used to be a fairly well known DJ and producer that I knew years ago who used to give me no end of grief because i was buying as many Funk and Soul repress singles and compilation lps as I could get my hands on too listen to or sample because the prices of the originals

( which i also happened to own many of )were becoming fucking stupid ..

and who wants to pay £200 for a bloody 4 bar drumloop..i certainly dont thats for sure

 

I was actually sat with my brother one time in his house in the late 1990s and I was playing him some tracks id been working on and id also taken over a bunch of comps id used to record them with which were stood in the corner of the room

 

Well,this same dick walks in and asks what we are listening to and i mentioned that they were just mixes I was working on and gestured towards the records id been using

 

The next thing I knew the fucking arsehole got up ,walked over to the stereo and TURNED IT OFF ! and we ended up having this totally idiotic and pointless argument over the 'authenticity' of the records id used...

 

I was so mad i wanted to seriously drop him hard on the spot right there and then

 

It was only because he was my brothers mate that he didnt get laid out and luckily for him my bro also asked him to leave...

 

what a fucking grade A jerk he was...

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There are some cases where the second or third iteration of a record sounds better quality than the original press. Does that qualify? Maybe it's only recent reissues that he's got a problem with.

 

It's a known thing that producers like DJ Premier used to sample some of their drums from Ultimate Breaks comps in the 90s but I don't see anyone throwing the book at them.

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I remember that Live at Future Primitive mix by Z-Trip and Radar that's brilliantly put together and rocks from start to finish but there's one mix going into "Hey Ladies" that's a bit of a car crash at the start of it and although they bring it back it does spoil it a bit for me. But I guess they were just doing it to keep it real.

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There are some cases where the second or third iteration of a record sounds better quality than the original press. Does that qualify? Maybe it's only recent reissues that he's got a problem with.

 

It's a known thing that producers like DJ Premier used to sample some of their drums from Ultimate Breaks comps in the 90s but I don't see anyone throwing the book at them.

The main problem i have with Hip Hop producers who moan about this type of vinyl snobbery is that the majority of their work very often doesnt even give credit to the artists they've sampled in the first place which ultimately throws their argument straight out of the window for me

 

An album like Entroducing for example was built on a ton of uncredited samples apart from obvious ones made by rich white artists like Orion by Metallica or Invisible Limits by Tangerine Dream where there had to be sample clearance otherwise those bands record company lawyers would have sued the fuck out of him and Mo Wax but the lesser known mostly black artists who were sampled wouldnt have the resources or whatever to file a lawsuit so theyre left to sing for their supper so to speak and that to me just smacks of sheer hypocrisy coming from people who claim to have a deep love and respect for those original artists and their records....

 

Well, if you love and respect these artists so much why dont you fucking credit them so they can earn a few quid ,or at the very least flip those samples so damn hard that they cant be spotted by a bunch of anoraks like myself ?..

 

Dont misunderstand me because im not trying to single out Shadow here particularly as plenty of other artists spring to mind and also because i happen to really like the records hes made, but he is or certainly was back then, a prime example of the type of bullshit 'dick measuring' mentality that goes on which Joe mentioned previously

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Joe - yes, I gave away my original Johnny Harris 'Movements' LP in so so condition on this very forum, because I had a clean double vinyl, late 90s re-issue which is much louder and better sounding.

 

Jeljms - I love that mix too. It has its imperfections as it's really recorded live in the club, but what a great thing to pull off live.

 

Rasteri - yep, it's fucking stupid and despite having many, many records of the small, faster-spinning variety - cos that's just how a lot of music came out - I feel like hiding away all my 7"s until the worst of the hipster bullshit has blown over!

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There are some cases where the second or third iteration of a record sounds better quality than the original press. Does that qualify? Maybe it's only recent reissues that he's got a problem with.

 

It's a known thing that producers like DJ Premier used to sample some of their drums from Ultimate Breaks comps in the 90s but I don't see anyone throwing the book at them.

The main problem i have with Hip Hop producers who moan about this type of vinyl snobbery is that the majority of their work very often doesnt even give credit to the artists they've sampled in the first place which ultimately throws their argument straight out of the window for me

 

An album like Entroducing for example was built on a ton of uncredited samples apart from obvious ones made by rich white artists like Orion by Metallica or Invisible Limits by Tangerine Dream where there had to be sample clearance otherwise those bands record company lawyers would have sued the fuck out of him and Mo Wax but the lesser known mostly black artists who were sampled wouldnt have the resources or whatever to file a lawsuit so theyre left to sing for their supper so to speak and that to me just smacks of sheer hypocrisy coming from people who claim to have a deep love and respect for those original artists and their records....

 

Well, if you love and respect these artists so much why dont you fucking credit them so they can earn a few quid ,or at the very least flip those samples so damn hard that they cant be spotted by a bunch of anoraks like myself ?..

 

Dont misunderstand me because im not trying to single out Shadow here particularly as plenty of other artists spring to mind and also because i happen to really like the records hes made, but he is or certainly was back then, a prime example of the type of bullshit 'dick measuring' mentality that goes on which Joe mentioned previously

 

 

From what I understand Shadow actually tracked down some of these band members from long defunct bands to get them credit. It's actually a lot easier to pay somebody who's well known.

 

I also don't care about sampling a repress, or any of that. The true snobs usually don't have chops and they're just trying to compensate for their lack of skills.

 

There are dudes, Damu the Fudge Monk for example, who create their own internal, self-limiting rules for making music. I fully understand this. Damu won't sample a repress. So, if you hear him use Manzel, Space Funk, that means he found the original somewhere. It's not a superiority thing, it's a self-imposed restriction he uses to create his art. The digging is part of the challenge for him. Other producers will limit themselves to certain types of equipment, some people will only sample off of vinyl, some people won't use samples that have been used, some people force themselves not to use loops, etc. etc. They have a whole youtube series where they blindfold the dude and they pick out 3 records. Or the beatmaking challenge on this site is another example. Personally, I'm a big fan of this type of thing. If you create your own parameters then you can play around in that world and see what do within those restrictions. It's a good way to generate ideas. I'm working on an 80s mix right now and the rules are (1) all the music has to come from vinyl and (2) the vinyl has to be made in the 80's. I always end up fudging in a place or two but the overall structure makes the project pop a little bit more.

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I can totally relate to the limitation aspect of doing things with regards to making your own music

and this is why i will only ever use single phrases,notes and chords etc in my tracks and not loops (apart from drums obviously) as i love the way it forces me to have to think and dig much harder to find seperate samples that can work together

 

in the past it always gave me the most satisfaction by making tracks using those particular methods although i can appreciate that not everyone wants to work that way, but for myself ive found its the perfect approach

 

Also +1 on DJ Shadow if he did indeed try to track down those old musician dudes.. thats a commendable act on his part if thats the case

 

Ive seen the blindfolded record challenge videos on YouTube and they're pretty good veiwing and i seem to remember the 9th Wonder one being particularly good although the name of the series seems to have temporarily escaped my memory for some reason

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JB's got it in one. There's nothing wrong with having rules, even strict ones. It's when you start aggressively imposing them on everyone else that you start to come off like an anus hole.

 

BTW that YouTube show is called Rhythm Roulette and it's wicked. Been a few threads on here about it...

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Sampling 'rules' is an interesting one. I think my own take is roughly in line with everybody else on here...

 

I have no absolute rules for myself, but through work at least and sometimes going to other shops, I take home new records (and sometimes CDs!) for sampling every week. Not through some pride or any excess of funds (I have none), but just because I'd be fool not to take advantage of one of the very few bonuses that comes with my shitty job. So mostly, I just sample what I find myself as it turns up around me. Like I said, no rules, I just find it more fun, part of my own process and I've always got more samples than time to use them. I'll sample any format and any issue - beggars can't be choosers.

 

I've always viewed people getting funny about having to sample from the original 45 or LP release as a sort of 'sampling gentrification'. Simply put, when hip hop started and sampling started it was about poor people making what they could with the limited resources around them - it's this ethos that's a solid part of what I like about sampling and hip hop in general. When some of the pioneers or sampling started off, if their parents had a Best of James Brown compilation album with a sample they liked, I really don't believe they then went out to find the original 45 at great expense. The Beatminerz used to buy tapes of records they couldn't afford FFS!

 

I would however recommend checking out samples you like repeatedly on different issues. Recently I found really clean UK 45 issues of the 'Papa Was Too' and 'What is Soul?' and the drums breaks on them really slap harder and sound crisper than the multiple other copies I have of these breaks recorded from various other sources. Likewise, I've found better examples of others on re-issues and compilations when compared to the original 45s.

 

Overall, I've got to agree with JB and JC, rules are fine self imposed for whatever reason but don't go judging and preaching on others.

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Didn't Premo once claim to have produced the samples himself for "Just to get a Rep", which he really sampled from Jean-Jacques Perry?

 

And what is Shadows attitude about using records from a guy, which is accused of having put his hand on little boys?

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Guest Symatic

I only listen to mixes made up entirely of mistakes. The dj has to have accidentaly turned up to a place with recording equipment, fallen into the booth, their ankle has to have mistakenly hit play on something and from there on out it has to be 45 mins to an hour of listening to attempts to stop the music playing. By music, of course i mean audio that has been mistakenly captured and some how ended up in the vacinity by means of a mis-spelled address on an amazon delivery.

Anything else is just cheating.

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I only listen to mixes made up entirely of mistakes. The dj has to have accidentaly turned up to a place with recording equipment, fallen into the booth, their ankle has to have mistakenly hit play on something and from there on out it has to be 45 mins to an hour of listening to attempts to stop the music playing. By music, of course i mean audio that has been mistakenly captured and some how ended up in the vacinity by means of a mis-spelled address on an amazon delivery.

Anything else is just cheating.

 

This is actually how Scetchbook was made.

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