Steve Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I see people saying this fairly frequently on DJ forums and they justify it by saying that it represents the person's real skills or by saying "then I know it's been made by a human", whatever that means. I had one guy tell me that I was "cheating" because I've put out mixes where I don't own all the songs on vinyl. His view is that if you don't own a song on wax, you have no right to use it in a mix. I'm sure if I looked hard enough, I'd find some guy who'd say that I have to own all original pressings, and if I make a mix using 1 or more represses, that's somehow "cheating" too. I certainly respect the skills of people who can perform well live, but I simply don't care how a mix or song was recorded as long as the person who made it is honest about it. To me, if there are mistakes in a song or mix, that makes it worse, not better, and I don't understand that argument at all. Likewise with record collections, if someone said "check out my collection of all original pressings", I would find that more impressive than a collection of MP3s on a hard drive, but the source of songs in a mix is irrelevant to me. What say you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00ban Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Started to type out some bullshit but deleted it as I'm pretty much with you this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Rock Well Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Although I don't enjoy mistakes, I do like when you can here that something was a live mix. As for all the "keeping it real" mofos - they're all knobs who can go to hell... It's music, made for sharing and enjoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Ha - that reminds me of the "what sample sources are ok" discussion. I don't care if you own it, made it, have the last copy in existence or sampled it off youtube on your neighbours' boosted wifi - if it sounds good, rock that shit! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wax On Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 It's the output, not the input, that matters to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Funksmith Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 But haven't you ever listened to a mix that was much too perfect? I have and it bothers me. When all the mixes are completely flawless, I immediately assume the dj is using autosync or whatever and I lose interest. A buddy of mine sent me a mix that he thought I'd like, and I did like the tracklist a lot but the mixing was so boring because it was clearly Serato'd up with perfect looping cuepoints and the beat grid was fixed and everything, and it was lame and boring.It's not that I seek out and prefer mistakes, but mistakes do give me insight into the process, which I guess is important to me. Because with that insight you can get a sense of whether the dj has a certain type of integrity that I want them to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 I've heard the type of mixes you're describing, but I wouldn't say that the issue with them is that they're too perfect. They're just bland. Auto-sync is largely to blame for that, because when you had to learn beatmatching manually, as you were learning that, all your other skills would improve too. These days, I hear plenty of mixes where the beatmatching is perfect because of sync, but the rest of the mix is cack. If the mix was the same, but it had some mistakes in it, it would still be bland though and I don't think the mistakes would make it better - I think they would make it even worse. As for integrity, all I care about in that respect is that a DJ doesn't lie. If you're using sync, don't tell me you did all the beatmatching manually - that kind of thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 see, when I largely stopped sampling other records in my own tracks I started using those techniques for my mixes insted. as there's no "mixing" involved in them because they're entirely production mixes that might fall foul of what R Funksmith is saying, but I always preferred production mixes personally anyway. things like Signify's 'Mixed Messages' were half the reason I got into production in the first place and I don't see that there'a really a distinction between mixing and production on that level 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I love the type of produced mixes Pete's describing. I obsesss over making mine as clean and fluid as I can and can't stand obvious mistakes in my own stuff. I'm not fussed about the source of the music. Live I'm slightly different and want to know the dj is manipulating at least something in their set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petesasqwax Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Yeah, Live is a totally different kettle of fish. I often worry that people don't realise how much I'm doing to the Ableton sets I'm playing and that it's all improvised live... then I realise that they don't seem to give a fuck and either dance like fuck or they don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broma Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I love a mistake in a live mix personally.... as long as the DJ brings it back. In my head I'm thinking 'go on son!' And it makes me feel better about my shoddy mixing. #threadkilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Man, unless you are using the original master tapes from the studio sessions and splicing it all and printing it back to 2" tape YOU'RE TOTALLY CHEATING STEVE! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I see people saying this fairly frequently on DJ forums and they justify it by saying that it represents the person's real skills or by saying "then I know it's been made by a human", whatever that means. I had one guy tell me that I was "cheating" because I've put out mixes where I don't own all the songs on vinyl. His view is that if you don't own a song on wax, you have no right to use it in a mix. I'm sure if I looked hard enough, I'd find some guy who'd say that I have to own all original pressings, and if I make a mix using 1 or more represses, that's somehow "cheating" too. I certainly respect the skills of people who can perform well live, but I simply don't care how a mix or song was recorded as long as the person who made it is honest about it. To me, if there are mistakes in a song or mix, that makes it worse, not better, and I don't understand that argument at all. Likewise with record collections, if someone said "check out my collection of all original pressings", I would find that more impressive than a collection of MP3s on a hard drive, but the source of songs in a mix is irrelevant to me. What say you? That bit about the vinyl is stupid. I could maybe see the point if you billed yourself as a beat miner.. then I'd expect you to be playing 45s or something.. I agree tho--mistakes make it worse! Duh. People are so dumb. It makes me think of photographers who are like "No I wanted it to be blurry with no proper focus point.... it's art" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBearOne8III Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I'm one of those guys who will rip a track off of YouTube on a minute. So fuck the source... Funky is funky. Now my earlier mixes were done to as close to perfection as I could possibly get them. If the beats got off, I would re record the actual blend and edit it later in sound forge. Now I just don't have the time. So yeah, there are some mistakes. But basically its about how you recover. Your average listener won't even catch the mistakes. I try to do mixes in one take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Funksmith Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I think possibly there's a bit of a gap in our various personal definitions of the term "mistake". Like if you go up close to a painting by a great master, you can see brush strokes, or chisel markings on a carved masterpiece. I think that's what I like, rather than "mistakes". I like to see some of the "stitches" that are holding the musical "garment" together. Or if you prefer, I like to be able to see some of the "brush strokes" that are an unavoidable part of the process of this musical "painting" to be "painted" by the "paint"-jockey. All awkward analogies aside, an actual example of what I'm talking about in a mix would be sometimes when the dj drops an acapella and they have to adjust its position by hand, or change the speed a bit after a moment, something like that. You can hear them fix it. So it's a "mistake," sure, but I actually think it can sound really ill. Dunno if this will just confuse things more, but I play bass in a lot of improvisational settings. In these settings the mistakes can generate fresh ideas, immediately. So there's no such thing as a mistake? But yes there is, of course. I think it's like TBear said, it's about how you recover. That's where you can flex your ability to react quickly, your grace under pressure, which are traits a performer should certainly have. Live albums contain mistakes, or they probably should. If they are flawless I think "Is this really live?" A lack of mistakes can actually distract me from being immersed in the music because I start wondering about whether it's truly live, I start listening for edits or whatever. I used to study classical guitar, and everyone's favorite player is this guy John Williams (not the movie score composer). His technique was absolutely perfect and flawless, and he never ever ever made any mistakes or errors. And he was fucking boring, it was like listening to a robot or a recording. You felt like he had studied human emotion and was recreating it the best he could, rather than actually experiencing the emotions. It was actually kind of uncomfortable for me, to hear this guy play. Anyways, I guess my point is 1) it sort of depends on your definition of "mistake", and 2) shut up. I'm right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 That art analogy is a load of bobbins, Leon. I would rather hear a DJ drop an acapella on time than drop it out of time and then correct it. Hearing someone correct a mistake is not better than hearing them get it right the first time to me, and I don't really understand what people get out of hearing such mistakes. It's like you're doubting a person's ability to be that good that they don't make a mistake, while also putting the skill of making a mistake and quickly correcting it above a flawless performance. I don't get that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deft Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I think as a nerdy dj it's nice to get an insight into how a mix was put together. I'm not a big fan of keeping it real mistakes for the sake of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I think as a nerdy dj it's nice to get an insight into how a mix was put together. I'm not a big fan of keeping it real mistakes for the sake of it.I do find myself doing that--de-constructing every mix I listen to. But you can do that without mistakes. The only fun thing about mistakes is it makes me feel less down on myself--like ha! He messed that up! Ok, now I don't feel so bad that I'm not perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Funksmith Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Steve, what part of "shut up, I'm right" was difficult for you to understand? GOD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danswift Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I had one guy tell me that I was "cheating" because I've put out mixes where I don't own all the songs on vinyl. His view is that if you don't own a song on wax, you have no right to use it in a mix. I'm sure if I looked hard enough, I'd find some guy who'd say that I have to own all original pressings, and if I make a mix using 1 or more represses, that's somehow "cheating" too.In response to both of those comments id like to know something ... The guys name wasn't DJ Shadow by any chance was it ?.. Oh and R- Funksmith was absolutely spot on about his John Williams comment but I forgot to press the multiquote thingy to reply to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdiggla Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I see people saying this fairly frequently on DJ forums and they justify it by saying that it represents the person's real skills or by saying "then I know it's been made by a human", whatever that means. I had one guy tell me that I was "cheating" because I've put out mixes where I don't own all the songs on vinyl. His view is that if you don't own a song on wax, you have no right to use it in a mix. I'm sure if I looked hard enough, I'd find some guy who'd say that I have to own all original pressings, and if I make a mix using 1 or more represses, that's somehow "cheating" too. I certainly respect the skills of people who can perform well live, but I simply don't care how a mix or song was recorded as long as the person who made it is honest about it. To me, if there are mistakes in a song or mix, that makes it worse, not better, and I don't understand that argument at all. Likewise with record collections, if someone said "check out my collection of all original pressings", I would find that more impressive than a collection of MP3s on a hard drive, but the source of songs in a mix is irrelevant to me. What say you? I agree. If someone made a mix live or with original pressing that's even cooler but the mix being good is the most important thing. Thats the fundamental necessity. The only exception would be crate diggers or some reggae DJs but that's also a very different style of DJing and kinda the exception to the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 For me the holy grail as a young DJ was to make a mixtape that was flawless. Think I've only ever done two what I've been happy with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj justin time Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 For me the holy grail as a young DJ was to make a mixtape that was flawless. Think I've only ever done two what I've been happy with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHouse Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 For me the holy grail as a young DJ was to make a mixtape that was flawless. Think I've only ever done two what I've been happy with.Uhhh, you're skipping mate ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Burglar Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I'm with the 2014 Steve all the way on this. I think people who say they like mistakes in a mix are just using that as code for the fact that they have an issue with DJs who can't play a live set. But just because somebody has a perfect mix doesn't mean they can't crush a live set. Also, some of my favorite mixes are impossible to do live. A lot of the classics are multi-tracked and if there are mistakes in them its usually because the DJ who made them thought they were passable (and didn't want to put in the effort to go back and correct them). From my perspective, playing a show, vs. putting together a "live" (recorded in one take) mix vs. a "multi-tracked" mix are just different art forms. I don't really want mistakes ever but when you're in front of a crowd you tend to get more mistakes, vs a live (done in one take) mix where you might go back and re-do the whole thing if you make too many mistakes, vs full out multi-tracking where there is room to go back and fix things you mess up. As I move up the spectrum from a live show, to a live mix, to a multi-tracked mix, my tolerance for mistakes goes down but the level of complexity also goes up to balance out the fact that I can do a lot more if I'm multi-tracking. I just can't imagine any established DJ making a mix and liking mistakes in there though. That's crazy talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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