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How to pinch the crossfader?


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#1 INFA

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 02:57 PM

I have searched a lot about this technique and cant understand the excact motion of the hands/wrist/fingers. please help me out



#2 MadAbbott

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 03:29 PM

can you elaborate a bit? Do you mean the kind of pinching technique people do with a 2 click flare for example? Got a video of someone doing it?



#3 INFA

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 03:31 PM

Yes the technique used for fast 2 click flares



#4 MadAbbott

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 03:45 PM

have you read this one? The technique gets discussed a bit especially towards the end... it may help. I can't look more into it now but think it's been discussed here quite a bit

 

http://www.digitalve...showtopic=33312



#5 Symatic

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 03:55 PM

I still dont get it either, but yeah theres that other thread already.
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#6 INFA

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 04:37 PM

Oke ive read the other thread en still confused about the motion



#7 MadAbbott

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 04:48 PM

what I've always thought it would be is making a double grab motion of the fader between my thumb and middle finger. Most of the pressure comes from using my thumb on the fader (so I guess that's applying pressure from another side, whereas tapping the fader would only use pressure from middle finger), and it's using muscles in my wrist/forearm more....have I misunderstood the concept? 



#8 INFA

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 11:09 PM

That would be a 2 click transform? the taps arent the problem but to leave the fader at open requires to variate not only pressure from the middle finger but also from the thump? Or increase the pressure from the middle finger above the presurre from the thump? Hope that makes sense haha



#9 Jam Burglar

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:15 AM

 

i'm just wondering if anyone has any pointers for HOW to do pinch style

 

How I've always done them is grip the fader between your thumb and pointer/or/index, bust the two clicks, then release the grip for the ghost click and then repeat on the reverse and so on.  At faster speeds it looks like you're "pinching" the fader.

 



#10 broke

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 06:41 AM

i'm just wondering if anyone has any pointers for HOW to do pinch style

 
How I've always done them is grip the fader between your thumb and pointer/or/index, bust the two clicks, then release the grip for the ghost click and then repeat on the reverse and so on.  At faster speeds it looks like you're "pinching" the fader.


Same here.

If that doesn't work, you can also try loosening your grip on the fader a little so that you're not really holding it much. In slow motion, the whole two click thing goes something like this: you're starting open and closing the fader with your thumb, lightly holding it closed with your thumb, then briefly tapping it open with your finger(s) of choice, letting it close again thanks to the pressure of your thumb, then tapping open a second time with your finger(s) and releasing your thumb at the same time to finish open.

#11 d00ban

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 08:47 AM


That would be a 2 click transform? the taps arent the problem but to leave the fader at open requires to variate not only pressure from the middle finger but also from the thump? Or increase the pressure from the middle finger above the presurre from the thump? Hope that makes sense haha

 
The difference between a transform and this technique is very slight, it's just a matter of timing really. You just need to make sure you're closing the fader first at the right point to make it in to a flare not a transform. Kind of in the same way as you can get 4 sounds out of using 3 fingers for a crab.

 

 

 

i'm just wondering if anyone has any pointers for HOW to do pinch style

 
How I've always done them is grip the fader between your thumb and pointer/or/index, bust the two clicks, then release the grip for the ghost click and then repeat on the reverse and so on.  At faster speeds it looks like you're "pinching" the fader.

 


Same here.

If that doesn't work, you can also try loosening your grip on the fader a little so that you're not really holding it much. In slow motion, the whole two click thing goes something like this: you're starting open and closing the fader with your thumb, lightly holding it closed with your thumb, then briefly tapping it open with your finger(s) of choice, letting it close again thanks to the pressure of your thumb, then tapping open a second time with your finger(s) and releasing your thumb at the same time to finish open.

 

 

 

 

Ya this is how I understand it. 

 

It should be called tap technique. Just keep the same pressure on the fader as if you were doing a twiddle or crab. First close the fader and then tap the fader open with your fingers (pointer or middle or both at same time) to get the clicks, you just got to make sure you leave the fader open at the end. If you time it right, a two click flare now just feels like two taps on the fader, and 3 clicks is 3 taps on the fader.



#12 Symatic

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:36 AM

I think part of this confusion is about hiw we learn about faders and clicks....
I learned everything from the perspective of tapping the fader ON. Because i learned to scratch with transform switches i guess.
But some people learn everything from the perspective of tapping the fader OFF.
And the two concepts are actually really different even though it sounds obvious.
Its only recently ive really started understanding things from the OFF perspective and the way some stuff is coming out seems closer to the things you guys are describing
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#13 Jam Burglar

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 12:09 PM

I think part of this confusion is about hiw we learn about faders and clicks....
I learned everything from the perspective of tapping the fader ON. Because i learned to scratch with transform switches i guess.
But some people learn everything from the perspective of tapping the fader OFF.
And the two concepts are actually really different even though it sounds obvious.
Its only recently ive really started understanding things from the OFF perspective and the way some stuff is coming out seems closer to the things you guys are describing

 

I'd almost forgotten about this type of thing and your making me feel old now.  Haha.  Yeah, I did the same thing.  When I first learned to scratch I was so isolated that all I learned was the basic, old school stuff so when I heard about flares it was always described from the sound starting on, and then you cut it off.  I had never even thought of cutting sound "out", only "on". So, I used to struggle with getting the fader to the "open" position to start the scratch so I could cut the sound "off".  What I remember is that I deduced it to learning how to transition myself into doing certain cuts and that has more to do with setting yourself up than technique.  After a while I just developed habits and styles that set me up naturally and I just stopped thinking about it.  Over the years I've completely forgotten about the distinction of thinking about whether I'm cutting the fader "on" or "off".

 

The scratch where I really struggled with all this was the twiddle, crab, orbit because I cut regular style.  Learning to use my thumb to only apply pressure when clicking but release it at the beginning and end so the fader doesn't close was kind of effed up for me to learn.  You don't have to worry about all that weirdness with the "pinch" technique.



#14 JHouse

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 01:47 AM

Relaxed pinch, where it's offset with your index finger then thumb, or vice versa like me. Meaning, you don't pinch them simultaneously, instead you move one finger first, then the other, in a very relaxed quick pinch. It's the pinching method that yields that quick double click. And yeah, that ghost click makes a cameo every repetition. Definitely not talking about transforms.



#15 ericuk

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:47 AM

Symatic has hit the nail on the head I think in regards to open vs closed.

 

pinching is done when the 2 click flare is started from the open position (in regular at least) and tapping works when doing any 2 click variation from a closed fader position. 

 

if someone is trying to pinch from the closed position, they are probably gonna fail.


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#16 PortableModManiac

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:16 PM

I think part of this confusion is about hiw we learn about faders and clicks....
I learned everything from the perspective of tapping the fader ON. Because i learned to scratch with transform switches i guess.
But some people learn everything from the perspective of tapping the fader OFF.
And the two concepts are actually really different even though it sounds obvious.
Its only recently ive really started understanding things from the OFF perspective and the way some stuff is coming out seems closer to the things you guys are describing

 
I'd almost forgotten about this type of thing and your making me feel old now.  Haha.  Yeah, I did the same thing.  When I first learned to scratch I was so isolated that all I learned was the basic, old school stuff so when I heard about flares it was always described from the sound starting on, and then you cut it off.  I had never even thought of cutting sound "out", only "on". So, I used to struggle with getting the fader to the "open" position to start the scratch so I could cut the sound "off".

Ah this is the same problem I am having. I started to think I had been using the wrong hand and trying hamster etc. I am used to holding the fader tight and tapping it with a finger to open it that when I watch tutorials that say start with the fader open I just lose all control. I am thinking it might be because of having decks around as a teenager and I think they were setup for trance mixing so I presume the fader cut was huge so I was always cutting the infinite tone on the cutmaster swift battle break I had ha. Damn I didn't think I would be able to remember that enough for it to affect me attempting to learn now. Still not sure how to stop holding the fader closed and reluctantly allowing the fader open though... I am just trying anything ATM as tutorials don't seem to translate to my hands yet...

#17 Jam Burglar

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:08 PM

If you look here around 54 seconds I'm doing two-click orbit flares using "pinching" as Symatic, Eric UK and I seem to be talking about them.  Not the best view/example but this thread popped up and I had already uploaded the video for the "battle".  So, like Eric alludes to I've got the fader open and then "pinch" for the 2 clicks forward, release, and the "pinch" for the 2 clicks on reverse, etc.

 

I'm still not sure how much all this stuff matters in the grand scheme of things.

  


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#18 PortableModManiac

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 12:40 PM

That was awesome by the way! The beginning I saw the fader open quite a lot but towards the end I saw the fader kind of gripped tight and tapped open. I know I didn't start this post and am highjacking it but I don't find it natural to have the fader open.

I noticed almost two different styles of holding the fader from the first half where it's open to the last half. Like holding it from the top and the other holding it to the side? I have no skills so probably need to learn more ways to handle it other than tapping it open...

#19 Jam Burglar

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 02:17 PM

I tend to hold the fader for chirps and one-click flares, but not for 2-click "pinch" style flares.  No clue if that's "right" that's just how I taught myself. 

 

That's also probably not the best angle for showing the "pinching" for 2-click flares.  It you think about 2-click orbits ... it's 2 clicks on the forward stroke ... a pause for the "ghost click" where the record changes direction from forward to back ... and 2 clicks on the back stroke.  I THINK the reason people call it a "pinch" is because when you look at your hand from above, it looks like you sort of grip the fader for the first two clicks, you open up you hand to allow space for that pause, and then you grip the fader again on the backward stroke.  I'm sure a lot of people have slightly different techniques for busting the clicks, but the main thing is when you go from the 2-click burst to opening up your hand stance for that ghost click and then go back to the 2-click burst, it looks like a "pinch".  The main reason you open up your thumb and index (or thumb and middle finger) is to allow you to time the space for that ghost click.


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